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A Lifelong Democrat Switches To McCain

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Ps104_33, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Both do use fear, I agree. However, in 2008, it's a matter of which issues actually strike fear without the fire being stoked.

    Most people don't think about terrorism on a daily basis. I never worry about being killed in an attack.

    Healthcare, though? Oh yeah. You better believe that if you don't have insurance, it's on your mind all the time. If you so much as get a sniffle, you're worrying about what it might cost you or if it might bankrupt you
     
  2. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Speaking as one who has purchased his own healthcare before, I did not have those problems. I had the pre-existing condition of asthma but after a six month period they covered that as well. Doctors also pass out samples to those who don't have insurance or who are in a waiting period for a pre-existing condition. Sometimes you just have to ask.
     
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Yes, in fact I do. But here the issue is the social handouts that liberals like Obama and Hillary want to spend our money giving people. Recall Hillary's Christmas commercial? What she did not say was that all of us hard working people would be footing the bill. O, and make no mistake about it, Obama's "change" is the same old liberal song and dance in a different rapping.
     
  4. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    Most people who don't have insurance could get insurance if they just spent the money on it. I did and I am far from rich. I just had to do without some toys and things I did not need, but I could afford it. It is called Blue Cross & Blue Shield Blue Advantage.

    For people who truly can't afford insurance there are Urgent Cares, free Clinics, and public hospitals.
     
  5. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Try getting approved with diabetes or any other significant illness. You won't. Even with asthma, though, sometimes you get denied entirely. When I got my first individual policy (by Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Arkansas), I had a permanent exclusion for ALLERGIES (!!) and asthma.

    My wife got completely denied for another policy because of a clogged milk duct. That's insane.

    My son had an undescended testicle, and he got completely denied for one policy. Another policy (the one we had to take), approved him but with a permanent exclusion on it and any later potential testicular cancer.
     
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I see.

    What "fear" have they inspired in you?
     
  7. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    People who can afford it should buy it. I agree. However, you can't buy it if you can't get approved. If we could fix this problem, I'd be happy. We HAVE to eliminate the two-tier system--of group and of individual health policies. I'd like to hear more about McCain's very vague proposal to allow more collective arrangments.

    Urgent Cares will bankrupt you. Besides, we don't need the uninsured using this as their primary care, which they often end up doing. Free clinics aren't available everywhere, and when they are, they often are so packed with people that you simply can't get in. Public hospitals sometimes can help, but the doctors have to be willing to treat you.
     
  8. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==I think asthma that sends someone to the emergency room at least once per year is a "significant illness". I had a waiting period, I believe for six months, and then BC&BS started paying (doctor visits, medications, etc). Even if they did not, however, I would still have the same position I do now. I had this position when I did not have insurance. I don't believe people should look to the government for help, period. I believe people should work hard, spend their money wisely, and live within their means. That is difficult to do now days, believe me I know. But sometimes it is just something that has to be done. I see people who claim that they "can't afford insurance", yet they could afford that new car, those new speakers, that new radio, that fancy cell phone, or that big screen tv. They can afford to go out on Friday/Saturday nights, they can afford to rent/buy movies all the time. Yet they claim that they can't afford insurance (etc). The problem is not that they don't have the money the problem is that they don't spend their money wisely. Many of these people have never grown up. Thanks to the plans of Obama and Hillary they have no reason to grow up. They can get free/cheap insurance and healthcare, they can attend college for free and never really accomplish anything, and they can get all sorts of other handouts. That is immoral and unBiblical. I have no problem with government helping those who truly need it and who will use it wisely. I have no problem with that at all. I think, as a country, we should help our fellow citizens through charity, church, and even government from time to time. However Obama's plan goes too far. It is the typical liberal, free handout, song and dance. Very little real change.


    ==Wow, that is amazing and it puts the spotlight on another problem. The insurance companies need to start listening to the doctors who know what needs to be done. We do need insurance reform/change. Doctors should never be "over-ruled" by some paper clerk several thousand miles away. What some insurance companies are doing to people is immoral and wrong. However, I must say, that BC&BS of NC has been really good to me. They have covered large portions of two surgeries on my sinuses in the past year. They have also covered doctors visits and emergency room visits (plus one ambulance ride back in April). Maybe BC&BS of NC is just different from others? I don't know.
     
  9. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I think something has to be done. I prefer a universal healthcare approach, but I'd be ok if we could find another solution to address these issues.

    Insurance companies have an inherent flaw. Their prerogative is to deny as much as possible. They have absolutely no interest in providing health care. They have interest in non providing health care in order to maximize profits.

    BCBS-NC sounds like a good company. I think another issue is the major disparities in law across state lines.
     
    #29 StefanM, Feb 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2008
  10. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I don't remember calling anyone a fascist...
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    That is how the Bush administration convinced me and millions of my fellow Americans to support the U.S. invasion of Iraq - remember the descriptions of mushroom clouds if we didn't go along with invading Iraq.

    Remember how during 2004 the Bush administration kept periodically upping the terror alert color? It is interesting that next to nothing of that has happened since the 2004 election.
     
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    May I recommend Psalms 27:1 to calm your fears?
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I see, carpro, so you don't think that the Bush administration bears any responsibility for such actions?
     
  14. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Nothing the Bush Administration has said or done has inspired "fear" in me. I'm truly sorry if such is not the case for you.
     
  15. Dagwood

    Dagwood New Member

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    In post #6 you said:

    "Good post. No matter what fascists say."

    To whom were you referring?
     
  16. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    fascists... No one in particular...

    Maybe this will help... Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers the individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    Sorta like what FDR did in the New Deal.. and why Hillary and Barack both consider themselves progressives in the mold of FDR.

    Of course, to be fair I see it in the Republican party as well with the patriot act...
     
  17. Bro. James Reed

    Bro. James Reed New Member

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    I sympathize with your position, but I would really like to know where the Constitution grants the "right" of health insurance to the people.

    Insurance companies are in the business to make money. If they feel you are a great risk (which they get to decide, since it is their business), then they can put certain stipulations on your policy.

    After I lost my job in 06, I went for about a year and a half without insurance. You know what I did? I paid any medical bills I had out of pocket. If I didn't have the money, I went to the doctor and asked for samples or borrowed money. If I didn't do that, then I used home remedies and/or remained sick until it passed. No one was required to help me, though many did. No insurance company was required to insure me, and they didn't. The people of the United States were not forced to pay for my medical care, and they didn't. And believe me, I have enough medical problems to go around. Without insurance, I could easily spend $400 a month on my regular medications, and that's without being sick! I also have asthma, along with hypertension, high cholesterol, depression, and several other things. I have allergies to pollen of all kinds, dust, cats, and cigarettes, and many others. As much as anyone else, I could be out hollering for free medical care, but I'm not. I'm not because I don't believe anyone owes me anything like that.

    I tell you this right now. If and when the government steps in to "do something" about healthcare, the only thing that will happen is, the insurance companies will close up or get into other lines of business, or the quality of care we are used to in this country, will fall through the floor. Have you seen government run medical facilities? Ask the patients at the VA, or at Walter Reed, or at your local county facility how they like the long waits, outdated equipment, and substandard care.

    My doctor is from Canada. He says the reason he left was because of their socialized medical system. If we want to lose good doctors in droves, then that is the way we need to go.

    If we want another government bureaucracy to step in and make the insurance business "better", just like they did with education, or with the banking industry, or with the IRS, etc, etc, then that is the way we need to go.

    After all, we all know that everything the federal government gets its hands on becomes golden, and no more problems ever arise out of it.

    If we had any sense, we'd be trying to get this government back to having a sound monetary policy so we could increase the value of our money and we could then afford our healthcare. It's the government that got us into the mess we're in now, yet we all want to yell for help from the same entity that put us here.

    Our government is bankrupt. How much more bankrupt does it need to get before people start realizing that these "social programs" are not going to work?
     
  18. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    We won't lose them. We are the only "first world" country not to have universal health care. Others can come here to make a killing now. If we shift over, they won't have anywhere to run.
     
  19. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    And therein lies the problem. Insurance companies do not care about providing health care. They care about money, plain and simple. They're more interested in a health (lack of) care system than anything.
     
  20. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    So are we going to force all doctors and nurses to work for the government? This may fly in countries that dont operate under our Constitution but Universal Health Care may require a Constitutional amendment. What if a doctor doesnt want to work for the government, are we going to force them at the point of a gun?
     
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