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A little positive news on race relations

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Ps104_33, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    FP, I am all for looking past the surface. I don't have time to deal with all you have said so I'll only speak in general.

    Have you ever heard of a book called "Shakedown". It documents how Jessie has enriched himself by approaching a business who has had a racial complaint and threatens boycotts and such, but in the end he gets concessions that line his pockets. He threatened Coke, and next thing you know, his two sons are granted licenses to own and operate coke distributerships. And He is respected in verious places around the world. Mostly by our enemies. On several occasions he as worked deals behind the administrations back to go pick up pow's. The countries know they will have to return the soldiers unharmed and will not risk Amarica's wrath, but they use Jessie to do it in a way that is embarrasing to the president and a great photo op for him. He has met with seveal heads of state during tense times without the blessing of the Administaration or State Dept. He helps the enemy with their propoganda. You will have a hard time convencing most white folks who live in diverse areas such as the South and Northern cities that Jessie is a good guy. He survives by keeping the race issues stired up. If the race issues were allowed to settle, he would be out of a job. Without stiring up race he would not be able to keep all blacks voting democratic and the demos would stop sponsering him. It is common for black misbehavior to be overlooked or justified using prompt up race charges. Sometimes he has responded to ligetamte issues, but mostly he as made a business and political machine out of race, and he has to create problems to maintain his power and posistion. And he has often said thing about whites and jews that have proved him to be a biggot.

    I think you are right blacks have made progress -with white help. But the Demos and Jackson want to overlook all that and keep the racial scarecrow always hoisted high.

    I am not saying that the black population is full of loosers. I am saying their are some mentalities their that hold them back. Jessie and the demos promote it. Some call it the slave mentality, some call it the victim mentality. We are seeing a prime example of this mentality, and the use of race in unsundry ways, in the NO situation. Let me give you a prime example of how this is used. On the reality show, "The Apprentice", a black woman was having a disagreement with a white woman on a non-race related issue. The white woman says, "that is the pot calling the kettle black." Of course, the black woman accuses the white woman of using a racial slur. This was an educated accomplished black woman. She knew better, but it is to easy to play the race card. And it works to often.

    I work in health care and I know the faces of the people who use Medicaid, there is more to social programs than just welfare checks. Blacks are disporportionantly represented. Not to mention all the other welfare programs. Head start, subsidized day care etc etc etc.
    Welfare reform has moved many people off the roles. That was a Republican move supported by Clinton when he was about to loose his second term. Even though the picture has improved for blacks and gotter worse for whites (due to outsourcing of their jobs), The fact remains that blacks have disproportionant numbers on social programs and in prison. Blacks are only 17 percent of the Pop. and they contribute the majority of the prisoners. That is astounding! We should not minimize this. I am aware that 50 percent of blacks are not in prison, and I am glad for it. Nothing I say should impune the reputation of decent hard working blacks. You are working so hard to minimize what I am saying, but Cosby said it, Larry Elders and other conservative black commentators are saying it. But the media wont give them the time of day. In fact the whole point about our societies giving black misbehavior a pass, because of a deep seated belief that blacks can't do any better, came out of a Larry Elder's book(a black man).

    We won't even talk about the things in rap music. And it is commonly overtly racist. Hateful toward whites. But again, we give them a pass. Because they can't do any better -wrong!

    You are also right that whites are letting go of the traditonal values that have sustained us all of these years. We have failed to stand firm. I know teen pregnancies have become rampant in the white community as well. It is a shame. But this is a fairly recent development for whites. But it has always been this way for blacks. I hope it is reversed just as I hope all the things that hold blacks down can be reversed.

    But as long as the demos with he help of Jessie and Sharpton keep the mentality they have, they will keep blacks from reaching thir potential. The great society, and its "entitlements" have tainted everything it has touched.

    FP-"My whole point is that we as a society need to look beyond the surface to the real core of the issue. Suprisingly we might find something.
    Only then can we move forward together as "ONE nation, UNDER God".

    I certainly agree with this. But I think we can only achieve it with the kind of honesty that people like Cosby and Elders are brave enough to speak. Welfare and affirmative action and lowering standards at jobs and Colleges should have only been a short term help. These things should never have become institutionalized. The institutinalization of these things has tainted everyone who it touches, and it has hurt blacks most of all. It has impeded their progress.

    Back to Jackson, I know he has his "base" in the black community, but he could never maintain the national presence he has if he depended only on his black base. The democrates keep him in power. No white man would reamain in power if they were involved in the scandles Sharpton and Jessie have been involved with.

    Well you wrote to much for me to resond to it all. I know it is important to you to make blacks look as good as you can, but only the plain truth will accomplish anything. And based on how Cosby, keys, Elders and others are recieved in the black community, I don't see the truth being accepted any times soon. It appears we will be in this rut for sometime to come, to the detriment of us all. And especially to the detrement of the magnificent black men and women who deserve the accolades they have earned.

    PS. I am only a Republican because I have no better alternitive, so you should not think of me as a republican appologist. ;)
     
  2. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    Bunyon,

    First of all. Do you know much about the coke incident? Coke was using slave labor in its Brazilian plants and Jackson was going to release this information. Secondly, he is respected in international circles around the world. For this reason he was able to secure the release of Navy Lt. Goodman from Syria, and 48 Cuban and Cuban-Americans from Cuba in 1984. This is why he was the first American to bring hostages out of Kuwait in 1990 or the release of US soldiers held hostage in Kosovo. It was not to embarrass the President at the time. You are looking at it from a Republican perspective. Any time a Jackson, or any other Democrat does something of value to the US, it is to embarrass or harass the other side. The Democrats do the same thing with Republicans. Frankly it is something I find very sick and wrong with American politics.

    He helps the enemy with their propoganda.

    Please show me proof of this. I understand you do not like his political stance, but please show me proof of helping the "enemy" with their propaganda.

    but mostly he as made a business and political machine out of race, and he has to create problems to maintain his power and posistion

    Once again, I beg to disagree. You may not agree with his programs, but they are legitimate and they do help the poor. The 1000 churches connected is even aimed at making people more self-sufficient and economically stable. He does not make race an issue out of everything to maintain power. He helps the community and stand up for the rights of the poor, that is why he is where he is.

    I work in health care and I know the faces of the people who use Medicaid, there is more to social programs than just welfare checks.

    Okay, I work best with numbers, so once again I will give you some. These are taken directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Bureau of the Census.

    1. In 2001, if you remember, 32.9 million people were at or below the poverty line. Of this number 7.8% were white and 22.7% were black.

    2. Of the 7.8% of whites 63.1% received some sort of means tested assistance. 53.9% received reduced school lunches, 19% received cash assistance, 29% received food stamps, and 48.2% were on Medicaid.

    3. Of the 22.7% of blacks 80.8% received some type of means based assistance. 74.9% received reduced school lunches, 33.4 received cash assistance, 47.2% received food stamps, and 65.2% were on Medicaid.

    Please note: These numbers are percentages of percentages. (i.e. 47.2% of the 22.7% of the 32.9 million received food stamps)

    While the African American numbers were higher in proportion to other races, the total number still does NOT justify a claim of dependence on the welfare state.

    Now correct me if I am wrong, but millions of people, all races included, in the US do not have health insurance of any kind. Healthcare is a major concern in this country.

    I think you are right blacks have made progress -with white help.

    Are you serious? This might have been true during the days of the Civil Rights movement in the 50's and 60's, maybe even into the 70's, but not today. You are giving yourself, and other whites too much credit. African American are were they are because of themselves. Did you even know that many African Americans do not want affirmative action because they want to be admitted or hired on their own merits? There are various articles on this-look it up.

    The Apprentice", a black woman was having a disagreement with a white woman on a non-race related issue. The white woman says, "that is the pot calling the kettle black." Of course, the black woman accuses the white woman of using a racial slur. This was an educated accomplished black woman. She knew better, but it is to easy to play the race card. And it works to often.

    Yes, she did use the race card and it backfired. Many black magazines and articles ripped her to shreds because she made a mockery out of her race and the people who do suffer from racism. I can give you sources if you like. Unfortunately the mainstream media did not pick this up.

    Which leads me to my next point. Why do you think that the media does not give much airtime to Elders and Keys? For that matter, why do they show the shortened sound bites of Jackson? I'll tell you. The media makes money of controversy. Watch carefully the next time you see Jackson mention race. In almost every instance the reporter asks him a question about race. he will answer it, many times leading back to poor people in general. However, all the following Newsbytes of Jackson show him responding to the race question and not even showing the whole answer. Why is that? Once again, the media makes money off of controversy and turning people against one another. As far as Cosby is concerned. Did you know that, I believe it was the NAACP chair at the convention where Cosby made the comments said that he should have kept the issues within the community. Not that Cosby was wrong, but that the media would turn the comments and twist them for their own purposes. The media did just that. People in the black community do not disagree with the Elder's and Cosby's of the world, when it comes to problems within the community, you just do not see this on the mainstream media outlets. People support Jackson because of the way he helps the poor, not because of the soundbites they see of him on the news and racial issues.

    I know teen pregnancies have become rampant in the white community as well. It is a shame. But this is a fairly recent development for whites.

    Once again I beg to disagree. It has become a problem fairly recently, (within the last decade), for both races. please show me any statistics you have otherwise, and I will be happy to review the claim, but as of now I disagree. The numbers I have seen, thus far, refute this.

    But as long as the demos with he help of Jessie and Sharpton keep the mentality they have, they will keep blacks from reaching their potential. The great society, and its "entitlements" have tainted everything it has touched.

    Please provide proof. I know you do not like Jackson or his way of doing things, but how do programs such as the 1000 churches connected, or the HIV/Aids program, or the International Trade Bureau of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition breed entitlement or enable the black or poor community. These programs or designed to educate and make people more economically stable, and less dependent. I just do not see your logic.

    I guess my problem is I look at things without a political view in mind and I am open to all possibilities. I search for the truth in everything, not just to fit my political agenda (I am neither Republican nor Democrat).

    We won't even talk about the things in rap music. And it is commonly overtly racist. Hateful toward whites. But again, we give them a pass.

    Have you listened to rap music lately? It is not overtly racist towards whites in any way shape or form. It is offensive and derogatory toward women and mainly dabbles in sex, going to the club, and money. Issue based rap deals with problems in the community, such as mainstream rap, (yes not all blacks like mainstream rap), and issues such as abortion. If you are referring to the early 90's rap by Ice T- "Cop Killa", then once again you are wrong, that rap was about the problems with the LAPD, not white people in general.

    No white man would remain in power if they were involved in the scandals Sharpen and Jessie have been involved with.

    I can name quite a few. Unfortunately it is the game of politics.

    My whole point is that I don't have to make black people look good. They can do that on their own, if the media would give them a chance. As I have said before the bias in the media cuts all ways, regardless of party of race. We are treated to soundbites and commentary that breed contention among people. It is a money making business. It is too bad that NO will be remembered for the looters and thugs, and once again let me remind you the media deluged us with he same pictures over and over and over. There were thousands of people obeying the law, who were just as scared of the thugs.
     
  3. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    FP, I got to go to work so I can't respond now, but I'll find time later. But I have noticed a few miscommunications.

    You said several time that these things can't justify a claim that the whole black race is dependant on welfare. I don't think the whole black race is dependant on welfare, but enough are that it is a problem for their progress. Here is an example of the, one sideed, attitude. I once watched on a black music award show, Whittney Houston, was booed as she came out on stage. The reason? Her music and she were acting too white. Blacks have a racist attitude they need to deal with.

    I have not made claim that the whole black race is dependant on welfare. But as you have admited, they are chronicly more dependant than any other race. That is my point, and it does not seem to be disputed. Why is that? I believe it is due to the programs which are mostely democratic inititives. I can understand how many blacks would feel tainted by affirmitive action programs, that was also my point. But Affirmitive action is alive and well. But my main point, which may have been forgotten, is that blacks have a victim mentality. This is proven in part by the fact that more often than not blacks get involved in a scandle, they yell race if they can. See Oprah, I have had a store close early on me plenty and they did not open it for me either. If the store owners were black, I would not assume it was racial and I would not make a race issue out of it.

    In the current atmosphere of racial devide, we have forgotten about people like Booker T. Washinton and George Whasington Carver. If you read their life carefully. You will see that they were given white help constantly. Especially, Carver. I visited his home in Missouri. Without white help blacks would be much worse off. But you reacted strongly to this. Did you think I was suggesting that blacks are incapable of anything without white help. You have not understood me or my post if you did.

    I grew up in the south. That is how I Know how thing have been for them. Maybe, SC is not typical. But I think it is. There are alot of cultural differences when it comes to Marriage and premarital sex. Remember, Marian Berry's wife when it was shown that he was having an affair. "Marian may have been with other women, but he always came home to me". A white woman would not have taken this view, or felt comfortable saying it publicly.

    Any how. I am not trying to put the whole black race in a box. But I am making points that blacks like Elders and other have made. I think you are stereotyping me somewhat by some of you assumptions about what I am saying and why.

    I'll try to type more later. [​IMG]
     
  4. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Racism is multi-racial; it works equally both ways. We have not come to the place in society where we see a person and not a colour. We all need to rethink who we are and why we are what we are.

    Depending on location, there are just as many whites on welfare as blacks.

    I asked a black man about the differences in the South since I was there with the Civil Rights Movement in the 60's. He said, I no longer have to lower my head and hold a door for a white person. Now I can do it because I want to. Some difference!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. freedom's cause

    freedom's cause New Member

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    come on now what about those who recieve multimillion dollar contracts from big American corporations things are very different you might say between night and day and deservedly so I think your prognosis comes from a distant past
    yes you lived in a different time but in today's world it's up to the individual and we don't need sharpton's or Jesse's in today's world we need leaders who want to move forward with new ideas that benefit all races will things ever be equal of course not otherwise I would be getting that multi-million dollar contract and yes the media is a contributor in a big way for the continuation of Black versus white white versus black we are all in this together separaists be gone yes there are problems and unfortunately in our world there always will be perfectionists be gone until Christ leads the way inequities will be the rule of the day as christians we can iron out some of the rough spots as the opportunities arise and God will help us to get those chances if we trust in Him
     
  6. freedom's cause

    freedom's cause New Member

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    I think I may have gotten a little carried away
    Jesus being perfect does want us to try hard to
    be like Him not Him like Him I remembered the scripture be perfect as I am perfect so on that point I have too much room for improvement I hope
    that I have not offended Jim 1999 or any other We must do better and can I have been very prejudiced at times in my life and ask God to forgive me of that it seems my lips are close to God but many times my actions are not we should all exam ouselves closely and turn from our selves to Christ and truly follow Him and ask Him to help us see others thru Jesus eyes Please help us to do that Dear Lord
     
  7. Bunyon

    Bunyon New Member

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    Jim1999-"Depending on location, there are just as many whites on welfare as blacks"

    Jim I keep saying, the point is that blacks are disproportionantly represented on the welfare roles. They have a much higher precentage of THEIR population on welfare than other races.

    FP, I'll reply saturday. I have the day off and will try to take the time to respond in a way you deserve. How do you find the time to write so much and still produce movies?

    I think a nice interlude until Saturday would be for you to tell us about your Movie. I looked at your web site, but I did not get enough info to satisfy my curiosity. How about it?
     
  8. hillclimber

    hillclimber New Member

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    America has moved steadily away from race as an issue. JJackson and Sharpton and those of their ilk have to perpetuate the issue of racism, because it is what fills their pockets. They are the racists today.

    A black man I heard in an interview on a radio station in or near Fresno a couple days ago, was absolutely sure that The President, who is white, was responsible for Katrina, and was using it as a tool to permit killing of blacks in Louisiana. Amazing what idleness does to a mind.
     
  9. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    FP, I'll reply saturday. I have the day off and will try to take the time to respond in a way you deserve. How do you find the time to write so much and still produce movies?

    I never sleep! [​IMG]

    No really, I am really passionate about certain issues. My BA is in poly sci with a minor in philosophy. You already know that I am aiming for a grad degree with a focus on media bias and public opinion. Making movies also takes a lot of time, but we are in post production right now. We are promoting the film, but are really in "limbo", so to speak until the edit is finished.

    I think a nice interlude until Saturday would be for you to tell us about your Movie. I looked at your web site, but I did not get enough info to satisfy my curiosity. How about it?

    I'll gladly tell you anything you would like to know, I am rally excited about this project! [​IMG]

    I also have a theory about the topic at hand, but I'll wait until you have a chance to reply to everything else. [​IMG] Sorry about that.

    America has moved steadily away from race as an issue. JJackson and Sharpton and those of their ilk have to perpetuate the issue of racism, because it is what fills their pockets. They are the racists today.

    Hillclimber,

    While you may believe they are racists for their remarks, sadly they are not the only racists today. It will be a glorious day when racism is eradicated from the US, however, I doubt it will come any time soon. Things are better than in the past, for that we should all be thankful. (BTW- I don't pretend to believe that the only racism is white on black- just wanted to make that clear)
     
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