A MEASURE OF PATRIOTISM

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Farley, Apr 1, 2003.

  1. Farley

    Farley
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    A MEASURE OF PATRIOTISM



    There appear to be many, perhaps most, calling themselves Americans, even Christians, who are of the opinion that it is unpatriotic to give less than unconditional support to those wielding the power of government and its military arm, whenever military operations commence. George W. Bush, invoking God’s own declaration in the Bible that either we are for him, or against him, has applied this mantra to himself and his administration. In other words, if we do not render unquestioning obedience to whatever actions or policies he and his “handlers” deem necessary, we are somehow in league with the perpetrators of 9-ll-01 or the current incarnation of Hitler, Saddam Hussein.



    That so many people, especially Christians, buy into this tripe is a shocking indictment of our historical ignorance and the level of our people’s idolatrous worship of the all-powerful State. Their denials notwithstanding, the fact that our own history is replete with instances of government and media conspiring to mislead, lie, or deliberately cover up the truth to control public opinion does not augur well for an absolute faith in public pronouncements or our growing pattern of military adventurism. Perhaps the ubiquitous presence of the American flag within nearly every house of worship across the land is suggestive of the church’s slow descent into idolatry. As we are repeatedly reminded today, the old American Republic avoided at its creation the establishment of any particular sect of Christianity. However, in pursuance of this broad toleration for Christianity’s many different forms, it was nevertheless understood by virtually all of the founding fathers that it was Christianity, the acknowledgement of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of the world, that formed the very foundation upon which our law and government rested. Americans are not taught this all important truth in the government schools, as instead, we are led to believe that government, as it boasts today, was meant to be entirely secular (read non-Christian). Thus, when government passes laws, or behaves in a way that violates God’s laws, the Christian church acquiesces, often in absolute silence.



    The history of the Presidency, at least since Lincoln, reveals a growing propensity to expand the executive office’s prerogatives, often at the expense of Constitutional limitations. This is especially true during times of war or national crisis. The present “War on Terrorism” offers a chilling testimony, in the form of passage of the so-called “Patriot Act”, to this phenomenon. The fact that the Bush administration is waiting for just the right moment to usher in Patriot Act II, sweeping away perhaps the last vestiges of Constitutional protections in the name of homeland security, should be enough by itself to cause grave concern, except among those deluded advocates of world hegemony under U.S., or U.N. control.



    True patriotism, correctly understood, is not mindless nationalism and blind obedience. It does not demand that we follow government wherever it leads. If this were its true essence, then let us ponder the example of Germany under the Nazis, or Russia under Stalin. No, as Christians in a once avowedly Christian nation, we must remember who has first claim over us. Where the laws of the State violate the laws of God, it should be obvious which laws we must follow. After the creator, our loyalty must be to the welfare of our family and our kinsmen. From there, like expanding concentric circles, our loyalty lies with those who share our common culture and with those that represent no harm to the interests of our people, State, or nation. When we fail to heed this natural, God-ordained hierarchy of loyalties and fail to measure the edicts of government against their impact upon us, we depart from true patriotism.



    If we believe that the actions of the State violate God’s law, or violate the principles on which our government was established, or imperil the peace and safety of home, hearth, and country, we are duty bound to speak out and seek redress. If these freedoms are forfeit at home then the government can hardly claim that our troops are overseas fighting for their preservation. The nature of the claims made by government over those serving in the military precludes them from exercising these rights for themselves. They cannot speak out. I think we owe it to them to insure that their government is not risking their lives for the wrong reasons, don’t you? I welcome comments at [email protected]
     
  2. LadyEagle

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    Proverbs 26:[11] As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
     
  3. Gina B

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    There appear to be many calling themselves Americans, even Christians, who are of the opinion that it is patriotic to defend their wives, families, children, world, and fellow humans against the types of terror that men such as Saddam and his minnions carry out on a daily basis. Somehow it seems very naive to believe that any measure of disdain and disrespect for those these very people have voted into authority would somehow be beneficial when in an attempt to present a united front. Do you know how pathetic a troop would be did they not place their obedience and belief in the person leading them? For an example look at the Iraqi army. You have obedience out of fear and disobedience out of disrespect and hatred. Do you like what you see there? is that what you'd like for us?

    Almost every household has coffee mugs in their home. Is this idolatrous worship? Almost every home in America has a bible. Is this idolatrous worship? Almost every home has Kraft macaroni. Are we worshipping brands?
    That a home has in it the symbol of freedom for the country we live in, ESPECIALLY in a time where we've lost many to terrorism and many of our fathers, brothers, and sons are away at war is not indicative of idolatry, and to say would be quite hilarious were it not posted in what appears to be a serious manner for thousands to read. I quite doubt, ok strike that, I KNOW that the mother of a soldier who has a flag in her home is doing it for the intent of worshipping the government as a god. ROFL!
    What laws do Christians lie down and quietly acquiesce to that are in violation of God's commandments? Are the flags on display now being displayed as an indication that we agree with non-Christian laws?
    Any Christian that is flying their flag for this reason SPEAK UP NOW, I want to know if this amazing allegation is true!

    The executive branch exercises more authority in times of war or national crisis? OH NO! What's our world coming to? ROFL! Do you truly think this is a BAD thing? Do you seriously believe that in times of war and terror the people we have FREELY ELECTED to represent us should not have complete control over the situation? Let's see, how well would presenting all of us with the intelligence they have gathered and their plans so we can all vote on it before they act go over? ROFL! Yeah, I know that isn't EXACTLY what you said, but I have a feeling you were probably thinking it!
    Hemegony? Either you're confusing Bush with Hussein or you've been reading one too many conspiracy theories lately.

    The fact that we aren't allowed to keep the duct tape over Martin Sheen's mouth testifies to the falseness of believing in mindless nationalism.
    Who said we're following government wherever it leads? When our leaders start acting like Saddam or when they start attacking innocent people we'll have a problem. Until then you sit at your nice little computer while our men and women are dying to keep you there and keep blasting away.
    No, it's not obvious which laws we should follow. You seem to be implying that we're following the wrong ones. Which ones are they? Being as your post comes at this time, I take it you're against the war and against the support Americans are showing for their own people.
    What is this God-ordained common culture you're referring to that demands our loyalty?

    Let me share with you something another person posted as to our reason for this war. Oh, and before I do, can I ask a question? Why are you posting this on a message board and asking for the comments to be e-mailed to you? Do you plan on not responding publically to your public post?

    ***********************************************************************
    America WAKE UP!
    That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe
    it was but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!"

    In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we
    have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more
    minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

    It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
    religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students
    attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an
    outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the
    world's
    most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency.

    The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to
    follow for the next 23 years.

    America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience
    and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President
    Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in
    the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol
    of
    America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had been
    decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Viet Nam war.

    A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was
    called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

    Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and
    killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect
    her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil
    continued.

    In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven
    into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63
    people.

    The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with
    over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine
    Corps headquarters in Beirut. 241 US servicemen are killed. America
    mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives
    is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her
    slumber.

    The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the
    gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

    Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe.

    In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers
    in Madrid.

    Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the
    main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the
    Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continually
    attacked.

    Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and
    we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the
    passenger list and executed.

    The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners
    when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the
    most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in
    1988, killing; 259.

    America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are
    still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

    Europe... the Wake Up alarm is louder and louder.

    The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America.

    In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA
    headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The following month, February 1993,
    a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with
    explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World
    Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are
    injured.

    Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is
    depressed again.

    Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in
    Riyadh Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women. A few months
    later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from
    the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the
    Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over
    500.

    The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America
    does not respond decisively. They move to coordinate their attacks in
    a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These
    attacks were planned with precision, they kill 224 America responds
    with
    cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

    The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12
    October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and
    exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act
    of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to
    sleep.

    And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans
    think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How
    wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and
    we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

    In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high
    official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know.

    But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you
    can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA
    or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been
    developing since 1979. The President is right on when he says we are
    engaged in a war.

    I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will
    continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

    America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has
    changed forever.

    We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure
    our way of life continues. We cannot afford to hit the Snooze Button
    again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the
    terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack
    on Pearl Harbor that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant."

    Thank you very much.

    Dan Ouimette
    19 Feb 2003
    ***********************************************
    Good grief, I wore the few remaining letters off of my keyboard typing that!
    Gina
     
  4. dwd

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    Gina
    I must say that I truly enjoyed your response to Mr. Farley. He must have a problem with our government. I do like this about what he says,

    "As we are repeatedly reminded today, the old American Republic avoided at its creation the establishment of any particular sect of Christianity. However, in pursuance of this broad toleration for Christianity’s many different forms, it was nevertheless understood by virtually all of the founding fathers that it was Christianity, the acknowledgement of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of the world, that formed the very foundation upon which our law and government rested. Americans are not taught this all important truth in the government schools, as instead, we are led to believe that government, as it boasts today, was meant to be entirely secular (read non-Christian}"

    But then he says

    "Thus, when government passes laws, or behaves in a way that violates God’s laws, the Christian church acquiesces, often in absolute silence."

    I don't what his church does but the churches that I have been associated with have cried loud and hard on what we believed to be ungodly laws.

    I have noticed that anti-war or we might say anti-Bush people want to speak with venom towards
    any of us that have some faith in the thought that we may be justified in our actions in the conflict.But then if we disagree with them they shout their second amendment rights, and demand that we shut up.
    Oh well ain't it great to be an American

    dwd
     
  5. Gina B

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    Yep, gotta love it! [​IMG] LOL
    Gina
     
  6. Caretaker

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    Amen Gina!!!

    We are at war against rabid dogs that will prey upon any man, woman, child that is vulnerable. As long as the war continues I will fly my American Flag from the entrance to my home. As long as the war continues I will pray for and support our sons and daughters who sacrifice so much on our behalf, including prayers and support for the military Commander-in-Chief. Our President is attacking terrorism, not trying to appease it. Our President has not defiled the Oval Office with philandering, and knows how to return a salute when boarding Marine or Air Force 1.

    The only tripe I see is that posted by the liberal peaceniks against our troops and against our nation's just cause.

    God bless America!!!!!

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  7. Farley

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    "We are at war against rabid dogs that will prey upon any man, woman, child that is vulnerable"

    Thats intresting. Rabid dogs. I wonder if thats how The Eternal Son of God describes them. What incredible hypocricy. They are lost hell bound sinners without Christ and not Rabid Dogs. You better be glad God did'nt give you the justice you deserve. I am not a liberal. I am a Bible believing Born again Christian who happens to be a student of American history and longs to see our federal government returned to its constitutional limitations. Why don't you try reading the constitution some time and stop watching so much television.
    There is something really sick waith a chritianity that wants to kill people. I wonder who Jesus wants us to "liberate with M-16" next.
     
  8. Caretaker

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    Your attitude Farley is exactly reflective of those who kept the US out of Europe, and sought to appease Hitler. The appeasement of the Rabid Nazi Dogs allowed millions to die because the US would not act to shut evil down.

    We should have cleaned-out the Rabid Regime of Saddam back in 1991, but we abhered to the Coalition Mandates to only free Kuwait. Because of our failure to take-out the Rabid Dogs, thousands of Iraqis were butchered.

    Main Entry: ra·bid
    Pronunciation: 'ra-b&d also 'rA-
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Latin rabidus mad, from rabere
    Date: 1611
    1 a : extremely violent : FURIOUS b : going to extreme lengths in expressing or pursuing a feeling, interest, or opinion
    2 : affected with rabies
    - ra·bid·i·ty /r&-'bi-d&-tE, ra-, rA-/ noun
    - ra·bid·ly /'ra-b&d-lE also 'rA-/ adverb
    - ra·bid·ness noun


    14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    Those that justify and appease evil are culpable in evil's fruits.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  9. TheOliveBranch

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    I would like to think that those people that won't be exterminated by this regime will now have the chance to hear the Gospel. Think of all thse thousands that were exterminated and never heard. There is no chance for those people living under that tyrant to ever hear the Gospel because it is suppressed in that type of dictatorship. Now the many who are alive will have a greater chance to hear, and those born to that people.

    Farley, Would you be the missionary willing to go to that country, while Saddam was in power, to give the Gospel to those fighting to keep it? Why did you wait to worry about their salvation until now? Pray for someone else to go? Who?
     
  10. Farley

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    I was on the mission field for a year in a foreign land. I was saved in a missionary Church in Iceland. If our Soveriegn Lord called me to go to Iraq or any other country, by his Grace I would gladly go.
    Brother Drew, its always the Hitler thing isn'nt it. May I remind you we sided with Stalin in that war, a man who killed around 35 million of his own people. They were guilty of war crimes just has atrocious has the nazi's. How come we did'nt invade them? Between 1917 and 1921 Lenin and Trotsky declared a war against the Orthodox church and murdered some 21 million.
    I guess they were just dogs.
    Men will go to any length to justify killing.
     
  11. Gina B

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    You might just have a problem with Christianity period if the thought of self-defense or the death of evil-doers is offensive to you.

    Go through your bible and look at how many times the children of Israel were commanded to kill. How many armies did God tell to go forth and slay the enemy, INCLUDING women and children? The same God who was appeased by Phinehas running a woman through the stomach with a javelin. On and on and on God's people were commanded to kill in order to defeat evil or preserve their land, and all of a sudden YOU are going to declare such actions evil and unrighteous? You might want to use a little caution with that.
    Read 1 Peter 2 and Romans 13 for your issues concerning patriotism.
    Also, I don't believe Genesis ever changed. Something like "whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed". Saddam and cohorts are murderers shedding blood.
    What is YOUR solution to the problem? I have yet to see ONE war protestor who had the solution, all they've have to offer are criticisms of the solutions other people have wept and prayed and anguished over day after day.
    Gina
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    Ollie North is reporting live on Fox News right now. He just said the Marines have given out, literally, 10s of thousands of those yellow meal packets. And they are giving medical assistance and medicine. And water. That's the latest report from the front.

    Now this doesn't count the huge ships laden with food for the Iraqi people. And this doesn't count the water pipeline from Kuwait to Southern Iraq.

    No, it is not the poor Iraqi people who are the dogs. And no one here has called the Iraqi people dogs. They are a pitiful people, starving, hungry, without proper medical care, and brutalized. They are not allowed to lock their doors at night. The regime must have access at all times.

    Our war is NOT on Iraq. But that is what those on the left would have us believe. Our war is IN Iraq, to free the people. To give them hope. To break their chains of bondage of an evil man and his minions who has tortured and butchered over 1.5 MILLION people. To break the CHAINS OF BONDAGE THE EVIL DOGS have put on the people of Iraq!

    Jesus said to "suffer the children" to come unto Him. Not stick AK-47s in their hands & make them killing machines like Saddam has done with his camps.

    Jesus elevated women and wanted us to be respected. In Him there is neither "male nor female." Not rape them, torture them, and cut off their heads & stick them on stakes in their front yards. Not hanging them from light poles because they waved at coalition forces. Like Saddam has done.

    Look the evil one's have done to our little 19-year-old soldier - broken both her legs, broken an arm, shot her, and only God knows what else.

    Look how Saddam gassed his own people the Kurds. Look how even now, his minions force people to pick up arms against the coalition, holding families as prisoners, forcing people to fight.

    Look how Saddam used the oil for food program to build himself great mosques and palaces instead of feeding the people of Iraq.

    Look how Saddam has used the oil money for himself and his friends instead of the money going to help the people of Iraq.

    http://intellectualconservative.com/article2057.html

    Many people have escaped Iraq because of Saddams brutality and many of those who have escaped are fellow Christians - brothers & sisters in Christ. What about them? What about their loved ones?

    This war is the most politically correct war this Country has ever fought! We are trying to be so careful & do surgical strikes, trying not to damage civilians. Not doing carpet bombing as in times past.

    I heard somewhere that 14,000 civillians were killed when we were bombing in France to liberate it from the Nazis. Whatever numbers of civilians are being reported now are inflated numbers, part of Saddam's propaganda campaign.

    Our troops are following the most stringent Rules of Engagement our military has ever followed. Right now they are being fired upon from a mosque but will not return fire because it is an Iraqi "holy" place. The Iraqi soldiers are firing from mosques, hospitals, schools - they are using tactics which break ALL rules of international law.

    And I feel sorry for the farmers who have been told to take up arms against the Americans or their families will be killed. So they are killed either by Saddam or by the coalition, or if they are lucky, they turn themselves in & get fed, medicated, and sheltered under our stringent POW rules. For some, probably the most food they've ever had in their lives! We now have 8000 Iraqi POWs.

    And maybe, just maybe, some of these people will have the opportunity to hear the Gospel!

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Constitution issue:

    And the Constitution has nothing to do with it unless it was President Bush's oath to protect the American people. We had a war declared on us by evil people and 09/11 was not the first of it, as was pointed out in Gina's article above.

    The Constitution hasn't been used (as in Congressional Declaration of War) for decades. There was no declaration of war in Viet Nam. Or Korea. Or Kosovo. Or Bosnia. Or Somalia. Or Grenada. Or Desert Storm. And as I posted on another thread, Congress has admitted there will never be that again.

    The Constitution hasn't provided life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for everyone in America since the US Supreme Court hijacked it in Roe v Wade.

    The Constitution hasn't been followed for years concerning our immigration policies & wide open borders.

    Actually, I heard paying taxes to the Federal Government was unconstitutional, too.

    The Constitution hasn't been followed for decades when it comes to Foreign Trade, either.

    The Constitution probably hasn't been followed for most of my life time.

    So if people have really been concerned about the Constitution, it's a little late to bring up the subject after all these decades.


    ++++++++++++++++

    Hatred of President George Bush and hatred of America is main reason some people refuse to see the truth. :(


    I'm praying for our President & our coalition troops! And I'm praying, too, for the innocent people of Iraq. [​IMG]
     
  13. rsr

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    What is the disagreement with this?

    She Eagle, I can't believe you equate hatred of George Bush with hatred of our country. If someone hated Bill Clinton, or Harry Truman, or Ronald Reagan, or Franklin Roosevelt or Abraham Lincoln, would you equate that with hatred of the country?
     
  14. LadyEagle

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  15. Roy

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    Since our country is committed, I want a victorious conclusion for the sake of our armed forces who have shed their blood and sacrificed so heavily in this campaign.

    It's the political wrangling in all of this that sickens me. If Iraq was culpable in the 911 attacks, then forget Iraqui freedom. Let's call it Iraqui payback. The Iraqui people will in all likelyhood replace the present government with something equally hellish or maybe even worse, given the sadistic nature or their religion. I think that a U.S.- controlled puppet government would be more desireable than something of Arab choosing.

    She Eagle, I agree with what you said about the Constitution, but don't you think we need to return to it? If we don't, we are headed for a dictatorship.

    Roy
     
  16. Ernie Brazee

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    What kind of leader hides(if he is indeed alive) while sending his henchman to deliver a message to his people to "kill them with your hands"

    Our president is very visible and in control.

    Saddam is nowhere to be seen since the bombs started falling, which menas he is dead, badly wounded or just plain chicken to show his face in public.

    Afraid of the US military? Hardly, he is afraid of the people he has opressed for so many years.

    Our "evil" government have given hope to an oppressed people.

    Some would have us to sit oon our hands and negotiate ourselves into another 9/11. It was indecision that brought on 9/11. Too many years of indecisive men like Carter and Clinton, yea even Bush Sr. erred in allowing the UN to dictate a halt in '91.

    Well, today America has a president who has said enough is enough. He is willing to sacrifice his political future to show the terrorist world the US has the resolve to stand against terrorists. Freedom is never free and we have men and women in the desert today paying the ultimate price for our freedom. Here is one more sobering thought; for all you sanctimonious religious liberals.....MANY OF THOSE DYING FOR OUR FREEDOM ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELLthey will die having not had an opportunity to be saved, yet we will be free to witness because of their sacrifice.

    We sit here all safe and snug and some critisize our government for trying to liberate an oppressed people, but give no thought to those precious souls dying in the desert to ensure our safety. Dying to send a message to terrorists that we are no longer going to apologize for being the greatest nation in the World.

    Yes, our leaders make many mistakes, but instead of mocking them, why don't you run for public office then we would have your perfect government, but guess what you will make mistakes also. Only when Christ rules and reigns on earth will we have a perfect government. Until then support the government God has given you.

    Romans 13:
    1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
    2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
    5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
     
  17. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Preach it Ernie! [​IMG]
     
  18. Farley

    Farley
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    Should we support the killing of babies Ernie? Or government does. Should we support special right for sodomites? Our government does.
    No King but Jesus.
    All authority comes from God. When that authority goes against the Word of God we are duty bound to disobey it.
    What are you going to do when this Government stops you from handing out certain Gospel tracts like they have in Cananda or limit what you can say on the t.v.? Will you bow to them then?
    Statism is idol worship of the worst sort.
     
  19. Gina B

    Gina B
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    No we should not support the killing of babies, but we also cannot punish the abortionists because our government says we can't. God will render his justice where he has told us it's not our place to.
    Also, you're focus on what's wrong with society/government has absolutely no bearing on this current war. You cannot say that the war is wrong because the country fighting it does something else unrelated that you feel is unscriptural.
    What you need to do here to have any degree of credibility is quite grasping at straws and actually show some reasoning as to why this current defense of our nation and of Iraqi citizens against a cruel tyranical government is unjustified. Nobody has done so, all of it is propaganda showing the effects of war and so on and so forth. We know that already, and apparently have decided that it's worth the price of freedom from terror for both us and them.

    You've yet to offer your better solution. You have the perfect opportunity here to help a lot of people you feel are too brain-washed by government to realize we're doing the wrong thing. Speak up, the American people need to know how this should have been handled. Over 5,000 people are members here, you may not get the chance to speak to this many people at once again. It could make an impact!
    Gina
     

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