A Message for Pretribbers

Ed Edwards · Aug 27, 2005

Originally posted by OldRegular:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
It is also my understanding that the church was pre-trip pre-mil until the third or beginning of the fourth century.
Click to expand...

The earty Church was apparently predominately premillennial. There is no evidence it was pretribulational or God would not have given John the Revelation for the comfort of the early Church and for the Church of all time. [/QUOTE]Some of my a-mill, mystic, and
preterstic friends say it is a history book,
how can it be any comfort?

Ed Edwards · Aug 27, 2005

brother ituttut: to buy into your schema,
one must totally forget two of the three
main divisions of Christianity.
These were the two divisions of Christianity
most damaaged by the Rise of Islam:

the Coptic Chruch of Egypt
the Syrian Orthodox Church (AKA: Nestorian)

Ignoring the most defeated 40% of the Christains
is enough (in my mind) to discard the schema.

As for the 'Gentile age' (AKA 'Church age'):

Rom 11:25 (KJV 1611 Edition):

For I would not, brethren, that ye should
bee ignorant of this mysterie (least yee
should bee wise in your owne conceits)
that blindnesse in part is happened to
Israel, vntill the fulnes of the Gentiles
be come in.

Luk 21:24 (KJV1611 Edition):
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall bee led away captiue into
all nations, and Hierusalem shall be
troden downe of the Gentiles, vntill
the times of the Gentiles bee fulfilled.

OldRegular · Aug 27, 2005

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
It is also my understanding that the church was pre-trip pre-mil until the third or beginning of the fourth century.
Click to expand...

The earty Church was apparently predominately premillennial. There is no evidence it was pretribulational or God would not have given John the Revelation for the comfort of the early Church and for the Church of all time. [/QUOTE]Some of my a-mill, mystic, and
preterstic friends say it is a history book,
how can it be any comfort? [/QUOTE]SO!

I thought all pretribbers thought it was a history of:
1. the Church Age [Chapters 1-3]
2. the 7 years tribulation [Chapters 4-19]
3. the millennial reign [Chapter 20]
4. Whatever [Chapters 21, 22]

A simple answer is that Jesus Christ and His Church always win. However, if a Christian can read chapters 4, 5, 20, 21, and 22 of the Book of Revelation and not see it as a Book of Comfort then then I feel sorry for them.

By the way I do not believe that the Book of Revelation is historical, rather I believe that it sets forth eternal truths concerning the conflict between good and evil and that the imagery of the book has no particular relation to any historical events.

ituttut · Aug 28, 2005

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
itutitti,

Excuse me,

Hello Deaf.

Please can you prove to us, how can you be sure what year of the seven churches as it is so called, 'Church Age'.

No quite sure your meaning here Deaf. The “church Age” started in the “wilderness” in the mount Sinai, where the Law was given. John speaks of the past, the present, and the future.

How can you prove to us that the seventh church is the last one?

I believe this position is by scripture. I believe most adhere to the progressive Word of God, ever moving forward. The events of men perhaps remain the same, but not God. We are enlightened as we progress in His Word.

A systematic approach is used, of course, and dispensations should be acknowledged. We should endeavor to understand Israelology, and realize that the progression does not stop there. With this we must use hermeneutics for correct interpreting, however I believe here we must have help from the Holy Spirit.

So from Bibliopoly through the “ologies” we arrive to where we are now, speaking of Eschatology. With this in mind I moved through scripture, Law and Prophecy, the “wilderness” church through Jesus’ earthly ministry (No. 1 –Ephesus) then to the Pentecostal church (No. 2), (then the Christian church which was dropped down as it were, and then taken up at about the time of appearance of the Laodicean church), progressing to the forming of the Papal (No. 3), then emerging as the Roman Catholic church (No. 4), then to the break that was complete of the Papal and the Greek churches in 1054 A.D. (No. 5). As time marches on we see the different denominations begin their splintering from the Papal beginning in the 1300’s. So this carries us through six of the churches.

Here we should stop, for there are other small churches, and gatherings, and those that are not churchgoers, but they are Christians, they that have believed in their heart that by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus they will be saved. So Christians in the Body of Christ in the six (6) churches, and those Christians not in those six (6) churches, dead or alive are caught up to be with Christ in the air, for we are to be with him in heaven.

Ephesians 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will”. Just think of it, Jesus Christ has taken me a heathen He discarded in other dispensations, but Now He is taking me, and any that believe Him to Himself, and we will be forever wherever He is – I Thessalonians 5:10.

This should put every one of us on our knees, knowing there is not one thing we can do, or did do to merit this, for it is by the Grace of our Savior God, through our Lord Jesus Christ that we are saved.

So since Revelation was written until now, here we stand pondering about this last church, as well as the others, just as millions in the past have done. Until He shows me something more beyond what He has allowed me to see, I will believe what has been put into my heart.

That teaching is come from C.I. Scofield. I disagree with his teaching. Even, Late Dr. John R. Rice disagreed with Scofield's teaching of 'Seven Church Age'.

Well, if this is what C. I. Scofield believed, then I have company. I believe Dr. John R. Rice has his right to what he believed beyond his salvation, but was he right? Do you have proof that He was right in his thinking?

When you read Revelation chapter 2 to chapter 3. You will easy find them mentioned, that Churches did face trials, tribulations, and persecutions. There is none verse with the promise that the seven churches will be escape from the coming tribulation.

The believers in the sixth (6) Philadelphian church will be saved somewhere within the tribulation from the “hour of temptation”, which seems to occur at about the halfway point.

All of the seven churches were existed during John's time. Christ already know their characters, works, spiritual. These are speak of the local churches. But these are apply to us of all churches throughout all ages till the end of the age at Christ's coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Click to expand...

Revelation says what was present and future, so I can’t disagree with what you say. Christian faith.

ituttut · Aug 28, 2005

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
It is also my understanding that the church was pre-trip pre-mil until the third or beginning of the fourth century.
Click to expand...

They searched then, as we search now. Christian faith, ituttut.

Ed Edwards · Aug 28, 2005

remarking

ituttut · Aug 28, 2005

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
brother ituttut: to buy into your schema,
one must totally forget two of the three
main divisions of Christianity.
These were the two divisions of Christianity
most damaaged by the Rise of Islam:

the Coptic Chruch of Egypt
the Syrian Orthodox Church (AKA: Nestorian)

Hello brother Edwards. This representation, I believe, takes in all the Church of God in one form or another. I didn’t list all, but they are represented, such as the following: Novatians, Pedlagians, Paulicans, Albigenses, Waldenses, Bohemian, Wycliff, Huss, Jerome, Bohemain Brethren, Luther, Baptist, Calvin, Knox, and Methodist. Then we have Montanism, your referenced Nestorians, Petrobrusians, Lollords, and the church of England.

The Coptic church of Egypt would have been on the foundation of Peter, for there are only two foundations. That other foundation is of Paul. Both these foundations are built upon the foundation of Jesus the Christ, our Lord, and of the grace of our savior God our Father.

Ignoring the most defeated 40% of the Christains
is enough (in my mind) to discard the schema.

The two you mention are on either the foundation of Peter or Paul.

As for the 'Gentile age' (AKA 'Church age'):

Rom 11:25 (KJV 1611 Edition):

For I would not, brethren, that ye should
bee ignorant of this mysterie (least yee
should bee wise in your owne conceits)
that blindnesse in part is happened to
Israel, vntill the fulnes of the Gentiles
be come in.

Luk 21:24 (KJV1611 Edition):
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall bee led away captiue into
all nations, and Hierusalem shall be
troden downe of the Gentiles, vntill
the times of the Gentiles bee fulfilled. [/QB]
Click to expand...

Israel is not now the “apple of God’s eye”, but He has not forgotten her, and will vow her unto Himself, for they will return to their first love. According to scripture “The Time of the Gentiles” began in the time of Nebuchadnezzar, and will end as Israel’s Messiah returns, and that is His second coming. Christian faith, ituttut.

A Message for Pretribbers

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

OldRegular Well-Known Member

ituttut New Member

ituttut New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

ituttut New Member

Useful Searches

A Message for Pretribbers

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

OldRegular Well-Known Member

ituttut New Member

ituttut New Member

Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

ituttut New Member