a "most unsuccessful war"? is Israel idealogically bankrupt?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Forever settled in heaven, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    interesting viewpt, not fr Hezbollah (whose reports r less n less credible) but fr an Israeli:

    rest of the opinion at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745313.html

    do u agree w it?

    EDIT: alternative view--gotta get victory "at any price"
     
    #1 Forever settled in heaven, Aug 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2006
  2. LadyEagle

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    Agree with "We have no choice but to win this war, decisively and at any price. It is an absolute necessity, and the only way to do it is by preventing the enemy from making any gains, and exacting a disproportionate price from all those involved in the terror. "

    I wish the US government/administration felt the same way but they do not, otherwise, our borders would be secured and protected and islamic groups within the US which support terrorist groups would be disbanded and all illegal aliens would be deported.
     
  3. El_Guero

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    Really close to my assessment weeks ago.

     
  4. El_Guero

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    But, they need us to pray and intervene with the Father that they may (1) have peace and (2) come to know the Christ so that (3) fewer of them will go to eternal damnation.

    Just because it was hasty is no reason for me to not pray - maybe even more reason for me to pray.
     
  5. LadyEagle

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  6. Eliyahu

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    I received an interestung mail:

    http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp

    This is what I suspected so far.

    People are crazy when they easily forget about what they declared.

    Where is UN resolution 15xx gone?
    Didn't it condemn Hezbollah as Terrorists?
    What has UN done against the Terrorists during the past 6 years in the meantime ? Notice the poor excuses by Kopi Anan who has become the spokesman for Hezbollah.

    Isn't it right time to root out the Terrorists now ?

    I don't find much difference between Hezbollah and Lebanese, but again nor find I any sanity from the people who are sympathetic with Lebanese either.
    Were they not the parasites each other ?

    If they wish the peace really, they must ask Hezbollah to stop shooting rockets into the Israeli civilians as Hezbollah provoked the battle first.

    Satan works very hard thru News Media, regardless of whom they belong to, either Jewish or Christian, or non-Christian etc.

    We must judge and discern News Media everyday!

    Are they not hypocrites who claims that they are true believers in Christ but deny and disbelieve that God promised to Israelites?

    Is it too difficult for them to believe and obey God who promised this verse : Genesis 15:18 - 21 ?

    More important thing is that any attempt trying to dispossess Israelites of the land of Israel will surely fail as God promised : Amos 9:15
     
    #6 Eliyahu, Aug 11, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  7. Revmitchell

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    Idiot!:thumbs:
     
  8. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    we may havta wait till Monday to decide.

    meantime, it looks like Pat Robertson's doesn't have too many allies in his decision to take sides:

    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/197/story_19772_1.html
     
  9. genesis12

    genesis12
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    Isn't it tragic that we are being muzzled? Not only internationally, or nationally, but on our own block? Folks are afraid to speak out against Islam on their block, at town hall meetings, at county government, and in many cases, state government. We've been muzzled. We're afraid! Freedom of speech is no more! I dare not offend anyone, even if "anyone" is a tyrant, a terrorist, an anti-God hate-filled organization. It I speak out, I may be targeted! How did we allow this to happen? It is one thing to live in "the land of the free and the home of the brave," quite another to tolerate anything, based upon some nightmare reasoning of the state, federal, and Supreme Courts. Where do we go from here?
     
  10. Eliyahu

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    The other day I visited a computer shop owned by ex-Palestinian man. He complained about Israel in front of several Arabics. He said Israel occpies their land illegally. I was quiet and found myself quite coward. I may have told him, if he were alone at that time, that it is the Arabic Muslims who occupied Land of Israel illegally. I would have said that there are plenty of proofs supporting the ownership of the land belonging to Israel.

    Now when we watch TV's and read newspapers, it is apparent that Arabics believe that Israel occupies the land of Palestine illegally or most of Muslims even do not know why and how Israel claims the ownership of the land.

    This is because the whole world, not only myself, is scared to tell Muslims that the ownership of the Land of Israel belongs to Israel and that Palestinians are illegal occupiers!

    Again and again I notice Israel fails in gaining the support from Public Opinion of the world. Instead I believe that Israel and Christians must declare the truth straightforwardly, saying up front that the Land of Israel belongs to Israel because:

    1) Bible proves this very truth
    God registered the ownership in the Best Sellling book throughout the history.
    Many books such as history other than Bible support that Bible is true.

    2) All the historical ruins and remains prove and support the ownership belonging to Israel

    3) Almost all the geographical names such as Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth, Jericoh, Hebron, Galilee, Beersheva, prove and support that they were once the Land belonging to Israel, and that the history written in Bible is true.

    4) God gave each nation the territory where they have to and can live according to Dt 32:8
    If Israel claims Teheran or Cairo belongs to Israel, I would strongly oppose to Israel. But if Israel claims the Land of Israel belongs to them I would definitely support them.

    5) Koran or any Muslim documents never mention about Jerusalem ( as far as I know) or ownership for the land of Israel.

    6) 4 times of War ruled out that the Land belongs to Israel. ( Independence War, Suez Canal War, 6 Days War, Yom Kipur)
    If those wars were provoked by Israel, Arabics and Muslims may have some arguments, but those wars were provoked by those Muslims and Palestinians first but they lost the wars to Israel, and the wars are often said to belong to God.

    7) The whole Muslim world must prove themselves by implementing Democracy, by imrpoving the level of life of their people in order to justify their religion. Allah may be too much stupid to protect his people or he may be dead as 1.3 billion Muslims are mostly in povery under the GNP of 1,000 Dollars per annum. Muslim world have more than 25 million square kilometers which is even bigger than the former USSR. Many countries like Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong achieved the economic success even without natural resources.
    Why are the Muslim so poor? Why are there few Muslim countries which have the democracy achieved.

    8) Any human effort to deny Bible assurance will surely fail. Any attempt to deny the ownership belonging to Israel will surely fail.

    We must enlighten them( Muslims and Palestinians) with such reality.
    We must confront them with the Truth, up front.
    We must speak out to them as much as possible.


    If the Ideology of Israel failed, it means they need to pray God and God will enlighten them that Yeshuah Ha-Masiach ( Jesus Christ) whom they pierced was the real Messiah and God will give them the peace.
     
    #10 Eliyahu, Aug 13, 2006
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2006
  11. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    i'm not sure what "Arabics" r, but u're right that they need the REAL messiah whom they pierced (Rev 19).

    at any rate, the ceasefire may not pacify either side in the long term, if all it's done is stir the hornet's nest, a pity really (see reports in the Israeli papers):

     
  12. saturneptune

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    Aside for all the reasons given, the bottom line is this. The UN has not accomplished on successful thing in 61 years. Why on earth would anyone think they would start now? Why would Israel put any hope in such a worthless organization?

    In the Old Testement, throughout the Books of Exodous, Joshua, Judges, Kings, etc, Israel goes through a pattern of depending on God, then moving away from Him, then they (Israel) gets in a fix, then calls out to God, and He rescues them. The cycle goes on and on.

    It seems Israel still has the disease. Time after time since 1948, resolution after resolution has been passed by the UN. Each time they failed to act. Time after time Israel has given concessions, given land, etc for peace. Each time they get stabbed in the back. Now here we go again. A UN peace deal. It gives Hezballah a chance to fight another day.

    Israel, when are you going to get the idea? If you want a different outcome, you have to try something different, like winning a war, and wiping out the enemy. Its like, I like hitting myself with a hammer because it feels so good when I stop.
     
  13. rbell

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    a couple of thoughts...

    -ditto on the UN. What a waste of NY real estate. They are patently anti-Israeli, and anti-US.

    -what's this stuff about "illegal occupation?" To the victor goes the spoils of war. Israel has defended its turf in the past. It now belongs to them. It may stink...ask any American Indian about that...but that's how it goes.

    -Israel is starting to fight wars like we do now...not to win. If you're gonna go after those terrorists, go for it. Collateral damage will be severe, but when your enemy shoots at you from mosques and apartment complexes full of children...

    it's not WW2 anymore. The bad guys don't wear the same kind of hats.
     
  14. Forever settled in heaven

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    seems like the clue lies in the top paragraph above: Israel needs to return to Yahweh-Yeshuah-haMoshiach n stop trying to do what seems good in its own eyes.

    until that day, the cycle goes on n on, n no one's in a position to intervene, for or against, in YHWH's dealings. anyway, don't Christians have the Gt Commission still in force as their fulltime job?
     
  15. Eliyahu

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    The Hope will not come from UN, but only from God.
    Israel need to be bankrupted ideologically first, then they may be desperate to seek after God, then they find He is the one whom they pierced before ( Zech 12:10)
    Are the Christians righteous enough to condemn them ? Christians are quite coward in many ways, and lukewarm now.
    The world may continue to anticipate something from UN but no substantial peace will come from there.

    I am very sure that Vatican works behind the EU countries which are mostly dominated by Roman Catholic.
    Simon Perez was cultivated by RC school in Poland. I believe that Vatican was behind Oslo agreement.
    The aim of Vatican is to get Temple Mount within the International Freedom City Jerusalem.
    Islam would rather choose to give Temple Mount to Vatican not to Jews.
    At the end the Pope may stand on the Holy Temple as Jesus mentioned in Mt 24.
     
  16. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    well, for now they at least have a Win-Win-Win situation.

    Mister Olmert, big bad Hezboy Nasrallah, n Mister Bush--all 3!--r claiming victory w the ceasefire.

    maybe they all need to go back to playing civil again n meet the next time at the Beijing Olympics.

    pas y amor.
     

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