A movement who's time has come.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hillclimber1, May 6, 2007.

  1. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
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    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55556

    "Based on statistics, there is a 70-to-80 percent chance that a [Christian] child will abandon the church and their faith in a public school career," Moore told WND. The bottom line, then, is Christian parents need to lobby their pastors, pastors need to lobby their denominations, and their denominations need to start programs creating and operating public schools.
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    He mentions statistics - does he produce them for our perusal? 70-80% of Christian kids abandon their faith in the public school? I'd like to see some evidence for those kind of numbers.

    I am a former Christian school teacher and yet I have to admit that some of the strongest Christian kids I know came through the public school system
     
  3. saturneptune

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    Both of my kids went to public schools, and they are doing just fine. The members of my local church who had children the same age, all went to public school, are all doing fine. The story is pretty much the same for work and my extended family. It seems my experience says 80% or more the opposite way.

    The result of what they do with their faith at adulthood rests in their hearts, not at a location. No doubt some abandon the faith who went to private Christian schools. It has lots more to do with God, and the parents who lead them for 18 years.
     
  4. Ralph III

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    I am not debating those statistics though they seem high, however it stands to reason many children would be lost; many more than had they attended a Christian Church. After all the former spend a great portion of twelve years influenced through some literature or with evolution, in saying there is no God.

    Not to mention, many children have no moral leadership and then are subjected to such as above in public schools. This would include Christian children as their parents lax on Church attendance, don't pray with their children, and come from broken homes.

    I am a product of the public school system. I can say at times such as the above would raise questions or doubts in my mind and I was always one, from my earliest age, whom held strong and personal faith in our Lord. But at times I would have to correct myself after realizing some of what was being taught, which is taught as fact, was contrary to Gods word and indeed a lie.

    I really feel for today's students as at least a few of my teachers chose to serve, with some actually reading Bible stories, as a moral example. Today with all the lawsuits and the ACLU trash, it is hard for teachers to serve as such. This may be the only chance many children would have for that type leadership, whereas I was also blessed to have great moral and Christian leadership at home and with friends. It is a different world than when I grew up and that is really not that long ago.



    I am all for the growth of Christian schools and feel such should be a top priority. I am also for legislation or reversal of some bad Court rulings, in again allowing teachers to serve as moral leaders or in leading prayer for those who would like to hear such.

    Where else are these lost going to get it from, radio?

    :jesus:
    Take care. In Christ
     
    #4 Ralph III, May 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2007
  5. saturneptune

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    Christian schools are great if that is where the parents choose to send them. A school, public or otherwise, was never meant to be the moral compass of a child. That is the job of the parents and local church. We go to school to learn skills, facts, and figures. It seems when I did go to public schools in the 50s and 60s, there was an element of morality there.

    I agree with you on some points. One is the fact that there should be no laws that discourage the growth of Christian schools, and there should be complete freedom of the parent to choose what is best for their child.

    Another point you made that maybe I have overlooked is that today, lots more parents abandon their leadership role than back in the 50s. I get stuck there sometimes. We have all these parents who were never meant to be parents, so what is the solution? Is it Christian schools, or is it other family members and outreach of the local church? If we want to pass some new laws, how about some laws that call these parents to account?
     
  6. hillclimber1

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    I would imagine these kids were from Christian families, thus their transfer to Christian School before completing secular brain washing.
     
  7. Hope of Glory

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    I would have to see a defintion of abandoning their faith before I could comment. Does it mean that they reject the KJV as the inspired word of God, or does it mean that they turn atheist?

    That being said, the schools are no longer there to simply teach readin', writin', & 'rithmatic; they're there to indoctrinate our children in the offical government religion of Secular Humanism.

    So, without a good foundation, I can see it as being a problem, especially since so many of our churches today embrace these same principles, such as the darwinian idea of man being only a dichotomous being. Or worshipping the environment.
     
  8. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    There is no such thing of teaching of any kind that id devoid of morals. There is no education system that moral neutral. Think about it.
     
  9. Magnetic Poles

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    I don't think so. Where do morals come into play in the teaching of mathematics. 2+2=4 with no morality involved at all.
     
  10. saturneptune

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    Now that is rich, you telling someone to think about it. What is your problem? You just got through accusing someone who you refuse to name of condoning homosexual acts in another thread.

    My post is well thought out and backed up by experience. If you believe it is any school's job to be the moral compass for your children, then you got a problem. Are you saying you do not want the responsibility and shift it to someone else?

    Of all people, a pastor, head of a local church, you would think they recognize that parents are the first line of defense for a child and the local church second when it comes to morals. Many Christian schools arent as highly moral as one might think, and all public schools are not evil. The issue is a little more complicated than your one brush simple edicts.

    One thing though, you are consistant. Your logic in both threads is about the same.
     
    #10 saturneptune, May 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2007
  11. billwald

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    My denomination - Christian Reformed Church - pushes Christian schools. Almost 100% of the parents and grandparents in my congregation went to one. I don't think that their education is any better than the product of the local govt schools. The parents who have been to college have children who go to college and the rest don't, just like in public schools. The divorce and retention rates don't seem to be any better than denominations that don't support Christian schools. The mothers work out outside the home to pay the tuition and volunteering at the schools is an excuse for avoiding taking on leadership positions in the church.

    If starting over, we would home teach or send the kids to a quality private (not 'Christian') school.
     
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    What is consistant is your micharacterizations of what I have said,and your "jamming tactics".
     
  13. saturneptune

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    You said what I was trying to much better. If a person wants to send their kids to a Christian school, that is fine. My wife and I chose to send ours to public school, and they are doing just fine. What we do not need is some self righteous person telling us what is best for our children.

    I agree with your point about starting over. That is not really an option right now. That would take radically different leadership in Washington, the type that most on this board think it is impossible to elect, the Ron Pauls, the third parties that share our views. The prevailing view is to vote for the lesser of the evils amongst the two party system, even if they both support abortion. The point is, until that changes, the school system will not.

    It is my guess those pushing for Christian schools for all turn right around and vote for people who will not allow that to happen. (ie a rep or dem)
     
  14. saturneptune

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    What is a micharacterizations?
     
  15. 2 Timothy2:1-4

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    I did not do this.

    That is correct.

    We have teachers of schools in thsi country taking our girls across statelines to get an abortion. We are teaching evolution contrary to scripture. We are promoting homosexuality in schools. Morality always comes into play in any situation dealing with people even schools as the schools must keep order. "do this", "dont do this" it ia all morality. Our teachers need to be anexample and a moral compass while they have our children under their wing.

    I never suggested otherwise a mischaracterization.

    I never suggested they were and has nothign to do with what I said

    What is consistent is your overreaction about what I have said as if it is directed at you. A clear conscience is a real peace keeper.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    posted in error
     
    #16 saturneptune, May 7, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2007
  17. Terry_Herrington

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    There is certainly nothing wrong with Christian schools, except maybe that many parents think that if their kids are in a Christian school there will be no problems with things the public schools have to deal with.

    In reality the school your child attends has less to do with what they become than what they see in your own lives.
     
  18. lgpruitt

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    I am a public school teacher in the south. Perhaps in some areas of the country the public school system fails to teach morals to our children; however, I do not find that true here. Both of my own children attend public schools and have done well. One is in high school and one in middle school. I teach 5th grade. My children at school know my faith...hear my beliefs...and know that God is my driving force and that Christ is my saving grace.
    It starts at home. Lack of parenting is hurting our children spiritually, physically, emotionally, etc.:1_grouphug:
     
  19. Petra-O IX

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    Chances are they were never encouraged to be strong in the faith in the first place, you can't abandon what you never had. This is just another stupid statistic from the World Nut Daily folks.
     
  20. Ralph III

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    Saturneptune you made some good statements but I want to take issue with a few or to point out some things.

    You are wrong that school, public or otherwise, was never meant to be a moral compass for children. As religion and the Bible was one of the most important aspects of a child's education in early America; before, to the Founders and maybe beyond!
    Not only for children, but certain military rank/personnel, were required to belong to or attend Christian studies. Forgive me for not researching that for you, but it is factual. It is something which only ended in our recent history. In addition, most of our early Universities were Christian principled.


    Yes, I came up in the 70's and had several teachers who were good moral examples. In fact as stated, my 3rd grade teacher used to read Children Bible stories to us. Sometimes this was in lieu of us taking our nap which she left to us. We elected to hear the stories as everyone loved it. My favorite teacher, his first year, was in sixth grade. Our class was very close and we had numerous open conversations on God and the Bible. Something which today could get him reprimanded, fired or sued.


    Yes, it is the interest of our nation and people to turn out children who are educated in the fields of mathematics and language etc. It however should also be a vested interest in turning out these same with a sense of morality and in knowing right from wrong. Much the strife you see with children today and society, as they will one day be the leaders, is due to lack of leadership or example. When there was a time in which a teacher could serve not only as an educator but also as a mentor.


    These are valid points but it would prove fruitless in passing laws trying to force people to be good leaders or parents.

    As to my point, which is major, this is where schools and teachers could step up to be a great role model and not just 2+2=4, next.
    After all you do have issues as another poster stated with abortion etc. In addition, laws often do not mean anything where drugs are concerned to children, whereas a good moral example could! In this case, a secular or straightforward approach means nothing, whereas a good moral example could mean everything. So we do have a vested interest in teachers/schools being able to serve as moral leaders also.




    Hello Igpruitt and thanks for being a teacher!:applause: We have several public teachers in our family also.

    Correct me if I am wrong but you are probably at a smaller school or in a town? I say this because you still see a degree of moral leadership and close community ties with such. But I think the South in many places or instances, is often the exception to the rule. Though voluntary prayer was challenged and lost in a Tennessee case; and Creation being tought equal or in offsetting evolution, was lost in Louisiana.

    We had four to five hundred in my graduating class and by the time I got to High School in the 80's, there were no teachers who stood out or expressed moral leadership, as based upon their faith. I can only recall as a sophmore, our literature teacher asking the question if we believed Fate were true. I immediately rose my hand to say "if you believe in God then you have to believe in fate......".(Fate is that which has not happened, God knows the future, therfore fate is true)
    However, she interrupted my answer as she wanted the other students, most of whom were talking, to instead answer. It was one of those deals, where we were looking at each other and she gave a nod for me not to answer. She knew this was a good Christian answer, and I could tell that in her, but she wanted to get some other's thoughts. Great teacher! Man, I was insightful even back then, ha.


    In contrast, my wife came from a small town and graduated with thirty one in her class. Her mother teaches at her former high school, though it has grown much it is still relatively small with a graduating class of 70-80. As my wife states. Anyhow, we often get to visit the school for different functions and it is an absolutely great atmosphere! The Coaches and others do serve as moral authorities and pray before events etc. However, given the court system and the ACLU, it would seem they are within one lawsuit from having some of that end.

    You say you serve as a moral example and your students know your faith? However, the Courts have ruled you cannot lead the students in prayer, you cannot bring a Bible to be read to students, you cannot give a display of the Ten Commandments to the students at school. Many students and teachers, though this is still being debated and may vary per state, cannot invoke God during graduating services. Correct me if I am wrong on this?

    I do know students can participate in flagpole ceremonies, where they can raise the flag and have prayer services before school. However, no teacher is allowed to lead in this ceremony? They can also pray at school, start Christian groups and bring their Bible?

    However, I have seen where the ACLU and others have brought lawsuits in attempts to stop some of these things or where students have been suspended for some of the things as pointed out. I guess it really depends on where you live and the School Administration. Because in fact, which is sad, you may only be one lawsuit away from having your good moral role ended at school. In regards to expressing or sharing your faith as such.



    Correct me if I have erred anywhere.



    Again thanks and we need more teachers like you! God Bless:jesus:
     
    #20 Ralph III, May 9, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2007

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