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Featured A Non Elect Person Saved

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DrJamesAch, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    The nonsense interpretations of dr. faux take place when a passage is divorced from each and every biblical step of salvation; election, the call, sanctification, redemption, justification, regeneration, glorification &c...and these are not necessarily in their proper ordo salutis as I've given.

    Thus no passage being used soteriologically is properly interpreted or exegeted without seeing all of these things also within the text. There is no other order of salvation and there are no missing parts in proper salvation.

    To interpret otherwise is an attempt to cause another to climb into the fold some other way.

    - Blessings
     
  2. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    You couldn't interpret the xoxo's of a kindergarten love-letter. So you can put your pope language in your inbox and blog it.

    By the way, glorification is the LAST step, what kind of educated "Preacher" such as yourself would put an "et cetera" after the last step:tonofbricks: You got your Latin mixed up with your Gratton. And if they were not in their proper order as you admitted, then you shouldn't have listed any of them at all when attempting to critique someone on salvation order, not to mention the entire comment is completely non sequitur.

    Paul said keep it simple, stupid. (2 Cor 11:3)

    You can explain to your potential converts supralapsarianism and monergism, I tell mine "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ".

    Come back and play again, but bring a full deck with you next time.
     
  3. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    That would be quite a stretch to assume she wasn't saved.

    *She called him Lord several times
    *She acknowledged that He was the son of David which means she knew He was the Messiah
    *She admitted the she was a dog conceding to her sinful state in total humility before the Lord.
    *She asked Him for mercy on HER.
    *She worshiped Him.

    In Luke 7, the woman with an alabaster box anointed Jesus' feet with the ointment and her tears, and never asked for nor said anything, and yet He declared that her sins were forgiven (Luke 7:48). Quite a stretch to assume that this woman was saved and the Syro-Phoenician was not.

    The thief on the cross merely said "Lord remember me". The publican said "Have mercy on me a sinner".
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Jew: We are the apple of God's eye. Kowtow to us or God will curse you.
     
  5. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    Oh no's massa, I's wouldn't think o' kowtowin a redneck Kentuckyan. Them good ole boys like to string me up, skin me 'live and bury me with a confederate flag on ma casket.

    And let me guess, you probably think Jesus was a white man, and that slavery was all part of God's big plan for building A Mary ca, (named after the good ole Catholic, Amerigo Vespucci) with it's capitol in MARY land, with their motto New World Order on their currency written in the language of ROME (Latin).

    I bet I know one name that really bothers you more than any other........... ABE LINCOLN!
     
  6. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    If Paul said, keep it simple, stupid, then stop with the supralapsarianism and monergism nonsense, so a lay person can understand what you are saying. The long words that most normal people do not use, contribute nothing to the issue, and certainly do nothing if you were telling others the Gospel.

    You are one to tell another about a full deck. In one statement you say keep it simple, and the next statement, the two words no one knows or cares what they mean..

    So, to rephrase your own words, "keep it simple; stupid. Notice the comma after simple has changed to a semi-colon.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It's good to know how you really view A Mary ca.
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Kentucky is the state I live in, and you can start by shutting your ignorant, fat mouth. Your stupidity shows in this post like all the others. Kentucky was not a southern state. You worry about what goes on in Israel. Take your fake doctorate and start a hog farm.
     
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    The "non-elect" in either system, the FW camp and/or Sovereign Grace camp, are ones who will not get saved. Now, granted, both camps arrive at their conclusions differently of how the "elect" are saved, but both sides do advocate the "elect" and "non-elect", and the "non-elect", not one of them will be saved.


    The "elect" are those who God has chosen. I, being in the FW camp, arrive at this conclusion differently than my Sovereign Grace Brethern. Again, you can not argue that a Moab named Ruth was amongst the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11. So was Rahab the harlot. The "elect" in the OT were both Jews and Gentiles, and the bible supports it.



    I agree that the drawing far exceeds the "elect:, but only those who heed to the call/draw will be saved, and therefore, they constitute the "elect".


    Well, repentance and faith are God's gift to man, but unfortunately, most don't exercise their God-given gift(this is where my Sovereign Grace Brethern disagree with me, btw).

    Can't say I disagree with this.

    God will draw all, but only those who are obedient to the call will be saved. They are the "elect". Those who willingly reject the call, constitute the "non-elect".



    Again, she saw His miracles, and that He was able to heal her daughter. What made her different than the others around her who chided with Jesus? God had revealed this to her, and she saw Jesus for who He really was.



    No one has a desire to come of their own volition. None have a desire to seek God w/o first being drawn. We love ourselves too much to put God first. It is when God acts upon the heart, the mind, the eyes, that our desires are changed by Him.

    Again, no one will come to Christ unless first drawn by the Father.

    God has dealt the measure of faith to man(Romans 12:3). God is the Author and Finisher of our faith(Hebrews 12:2). There is a spirit in man that God gives understanding to(Job 32:8).





    I am not convinced Cornelius wasn't saved. I don't believe that God would send an angel to speak to someone who was lost. At the time of Acts, there was a transition period, where they were coming out of Judaism into christianity. In Acts 19, you can ever read where some had be baptized unto John's baptism, but hadn't even heard if they was a Holy Ghost. Then Apostle Paul laid his hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost. Simon could have been one of those who had been baptized with John's baptism, and God sent word by an angel to send for Peter. I am not sure this was the case, but it is just a thought. But God wouldn't send an angel to a lost man, imo.

    Until Christ call's, none of us has a choice. We have no innate ability/desire to come to God in our fallen state. We loved darkness, and enjoyed wallowing in it. It is only after God confronted us with our position, and just how lost, ruined, vile, self-loving, haughty, prideful, we really are, and that w/o Him, we're gonna die forever lost, that we can turn to Him.


    I agree with this right here. But to say an "non-elect" can, and will, be saved, is foreign to both camps. It's akin to saying one of the "elect" will die lost. This too, would be foerign to both camps.
     
    #29 convicted1, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2013
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Amen ... LOL!
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    What a novice.

    Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    and
    For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit . . .
    The woman of Canaan was elect.
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be quite a stretch to assume she was.
    But not for salvation, as you say, but for healing for her daughter.
    She repeated what she heard the Jews saying, hoping to get his attention.
    No doubt, she humbled herself before Him for the sake of her daughter, not for salvation.
    For her daughter's sake, not for her own.
    I already addressed that.
    And Jesus did not use that phrase with the Syro-Phoenician woman. He didn't say, "your sins are forgiven" (she didn't ask for that), or that her faith had "saved her" (she didn't ask for that) but He gave her the desire of her heart, which was healing for her daughter.
    It is a stretch to put them into the same category, since Jesus specifically told the one "your sins are forgiven", but nothing of the sort for the other.
    This woman's focus was not on herself, but her daughter.

    This is not a passage of text that addresses election or total depravity or even salvation for the woman. The passage demonstrates our Lord's compassion and mercy.
     
  13. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    If Paul said, keep it simple, stupid, then stop with the supralapsarianism and monergism nonsense, so a lay person can understand what you are saying. The long words that most normal people do not use, contribute nothing to the issue, and certainly do nothing if you were telling others the Gospel.
    Apparently, you missed the contrast. Supralapsarianism is a Calvinist tenet and was used as an example of how a Calvinist complicates the gospel along with P4T's necessity of explaining the 12 orders of salvation when the Biblical message to the lost sinner has never been that complicated.

    And to think I was beginning to have a little respect for you as a comedian. Good comedians don't give away the punch the line :) If you have to explain your joke, you're still a rookie.
     
  14. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    Yes I understand that most Replacement Theology adherents interpret Romans 2 like that.
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Actually Paul is very clear about it in other places:

    2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
    3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3

    And Christ is very clear about it also:

    ......the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan.....

    ....the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie.... Rev 2:9;3:9
     
    #35 kyredneck, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2013
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    dr. faux should probably rename himself 'Dr.Concordance'. He can find the verses but we all know a concordance can't interpret.
     
  17. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    I can find the verses because I actually read and memorize the Bible instead of creeds and confessions.

    "Bible Answer Man" was taken by Walter Martin, "Walking Bible" was taken by Jack Van Impe. I'll have to check to see if "Dr. Concordance" is available.

    You should try "Reacher4Truth"...Much more accurate than "preacher". Arms too short?:thumbsup:
     
  18. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I've not read any creeds or confessions.
     
  19. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch New Member

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    That's funny because you quoted them when attempting to define the "ordo salutis". Even if you simply read it in a book by Hodge or Sproul, it's still based on how the confessions defined the debate between Calvin and Arminius when it came to the order of salvation,
     
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I quoted a creed? You're trippin' hard on something.

    I've never read a creed or confession. Anywhere. Now I am certain they are valuable, but you simply slander everything, and many great men of God in the meantime.

    So by using the term ordo salutis you derive all this other nonsense? You're talking about when I stated election, calling, justification &c correct? If so, that's called Biblical terminology. Based on this I'm thankful that Paul too is DoG/Reformed.

    No wonder you struggle with interpretation. You've just eisegeted what I said in the same manner you eisegete Scripture. It's a pattern for you.
     
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