A Passage In Which Many Calvinists Struggle

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by DrJamesAch, Jul 10, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

    Instead of studying the WORD, Calvinists accept the interpretations of Calvin on election, who got his idea from Augustine (whom he quoted over 400 times in his Institutes), who got his idea of election from Manicheans, who get their idea from BUDDHISTS.

    Calvinists like John Piper even take these occultic doctrines even further and CHRISTIANIZE hedonism. See also Piper's support of the Catholic influenced Lausanne Movement.

    Calvinists will not admit that the Creeds and Confessions come before the Bible. How so? ALL Calvinists will tell a Non Calvinist they don't understand Calvinism. You can not understand Calvinism unless you have understood the Creeds. They affirm that Calvinism IS THE gospel. So in other words, to understand the gospel, you have to understand Calvinism; to understand Calvinism, you have to understand the Creeds.

    ...And how is that any different than the Dark Ages of the Roman Catholic Church that held that the Bible could not be understood outside of the explications of the priests?

    The Calvinists adopt the eschatology of Augustine denying a future millennial kingdom also rooted in occultic dominionism.

    Very few Calvinists know of the history of the Freemasons in the Dutch Reformed Church, and the role the Dutch East Company played in the Apartheid in Afrika (of which the Calvinist leaders often "glorified God" over the "providence" that God had shown in their exploiting slaves and their labors for their gain. Jonathon Edwards, staunch Calvinist of that era, was a notorious slave owner.)

    Thus Calvinism is a deliberate satanic conspiracy that the Jesuits and Freemasons used to prevent Christians from completely breaking away from the Whore of Babylon much like the adoption of Christianity by Constantine as the state religion of Rome and the "edict of Milan" was used to stop the spread of Christianity.

    One must be willingly ignorant to bypass these facts, and the similarities in the Reformer "champions" with the RCC. Augustine consented to the death of "heretics", and likewise did Luther and John Calvin. How can any rationally minded person view all of the evidence of history, and the origins of these beliefs, and NOT see the satanic conspiracy of Calvinism to drag the church away from the Bible and in preparation for the coming tribulation under rule of the false prophet from ROME??

    "Oh but Calvinists don't agree with the pope and even Calvin called the pope the antichrist". AND YET THE RCC NEVER TRIED TO KILL HIM!! The RCC is ALWAYS willing to let their puppets ridicule them if that kind of cover helps achieve their bigger picture.

    If the Calvinists would TRULY study solo scriptura, and ask God to open their eyes to the HOAX of Calvinism, perhaps the church may have a real revival in these last days.
     
  2. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    Interesting. I found the Doctrine of Grace directly in the Scriptures. I was raised under Arminian teaching (parents, Christian school, church) and when I fully studied the Scriptures, I started seeing something very different than what I was taught. I didn't learn it from anyone outside and I had never heard it spoken of so I was beginning to think that I was reading something wrong. But the more I read, the more I was convinced that what I had learned through my life was not correct.

    So how did I get that from Buddhism?
     
  3. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    You have the same testimony as many Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Atheists, Muslims that started out Christians and then "started to see something different". I could say the same thing. After I left Judaism, I was a Presbyterian and devout Calvinists until I started seeing inconsistencies when I studied the Bible alone.

    Both stories, being perceived as the truth by both of us, do not determine the truth of the doctrines because that would require us to accept a subjective standard of evidence (experience). Bottom line though is that somebody is wrong.
     
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    I totally agree with your posts. IMO, Buddhism has nothing to do with the point. The person you quoted is trying to inflame. "Calvinists are satanic" etc...... The only solution to this person is for every poster to ignore him. He is not interested in Doctrines of Grace, freewill, Calvinism, non-Calvinism, or any other doctrine. He is interested in starting a back and forth of name calling.
     
    #4 saturneptune, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  5. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,272
    Likes Received:
    620
    Your thread title had me anticipating a robust picking apart of a problematic scripture for Calvinists. Instead I get a totally non-controversial verse and lots of pseudo-history, guilt by association, name calling, unsupported allegations, and innuendo.

    I dare you to go a day, no wait, make it 6 hours without posting anything to do with Calvinism.
     
  6. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    Please note that Dr. JamesAch's argument is against the position and your argument is against the person -> Do you know what "your" argument is called and why your argument is commonly known as fallacy in debate???

    Now, then, who is really making this personal and is interested in "starting" back and forth name calling here???
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    He is, take notice of one small quote

    Thus Calvinism is a deliberate satanic conspiracy that the Jesuits and Freemasons used to prevent Christians from completely breaking away from the Whore of Babylon much like the adoption of Christianity by Constantine as the state religion of Rome and the "edict of Milan" was used to stop the spread of Christianity.

    This is clear proof that there is no interest in discussing doctrine.
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is another

    The Calvinists adopt the eschatology of Augustine denying a future millennial kingdom also rooted in occultic dominionism. I also have no use for Jesuits or Freemasons, however, why not call them child molesters if you are going to bother to call them members of the occult and satanic? Back to my point, if there was a serious desire to discuss doctrine, the wording would be serious, worthy of someone who really has a doctorate.
     
    #8 saturneptune, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  9. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    BTW, Ach, you lose track or something? Where's the passage???

    :smilewinkgrin:

    Oh, my bad, I see how you tied it together with 1Tim 2:15. Nevermind.
     
    #9 Benjamin, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  10. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,488
    Likes Received:
    4
    I'm beginning to wonder, do you have something against Calvinism, if you do why don't you just come on out and say it. I think it would do you good to take a big deep breath and just tell us here how you really feel. We are here for ya buddy :1_grouphug:
     
  11. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    1Tim 2:15

    The question is what are you really studying? Where did the doctrine of Calvinism come from? How seriously do you take this verse:

    Col 2:8
    (8)
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
     
  12. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hope you mean 2 Tim 2:15 not 1 Tim. 1 Tim states 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety
     
  13. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    Oops :eek:

    BTW, you missed my point,,,because I don't see your personal name or anyone else name in that quote you offered,

    Ad Hominem is clearly the fallacy which you started not him.
     
  14. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    He's the one that really has nothing to contribute or say. This is a game to him. I spend way much more time exegeting Scripture and explaining different philosophies then he bothers to. He simply waits from me to post something, follows the thread around, then gets his 3 buddies to join in to try and get the thread closed down. His arguments aren't even serious so I don't take them seriously. I've caught on to what he and his 3 pals have been trying to do with their little "tag team" system.

    We can save our responses to them when they actually present something factual and meaningful to the issues.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,972
    Likes Received:
    97
    He should be banned.
     
  16. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    Do you not see how you tried to make this a personal issue??? Dr. JamesAch did NOT make this personal as you quoted him!!! You took the attack directly to the person! This:

    ...is an attack on the POSITION, not the PERSON!

    People like this who have nothing to contribute to the debate but personal attacks like this:


    ...should be banned!
     
  17. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Crash Dummie #2
     
  18. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now, since you started the debate about personal attacks, I will use examples of ones on me, but there are many other posters. So how do you explain this quote? Does this focus on the issue and not the person?

    "It is obvious that a Calvinist did NOT write the Song of Solomon because the subject in chapter one is ASKING to be drawn, instead of being forcefully drawn. Finish 5th grade before you tackle this book. More Bible, less astronomy."

    Benjamin, although we disagree on many issues, I will restate this. Your posts are honest, well thought out, and created to start an honest debate.

    Why do you defend this person? Just yesterday, he told a new poster with just a few posts, that he had concluded he was not who he said he was. I do not even know what that means, but a statement like that on a new poster has no purpose other than pure meanness.
     
    #18 saturneptune, Jul 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2013
  19. Benjamin

    Benjamin
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,893
    Likes Received:
    112
    Sorry but that was never meant as an invitation to continue to derail the thread with continued personal attacks.

    All I would ask from you is to be honest and admit that that is what you came into this thread trying to accomplish, that you may not have understood what an Ad Hominem is and/or why it is an unethical way to enter a debate on a debate board and to stop doing it. NOW!

    I went off topic, which I apologize for, to defend this poster's right to begin a debate without these stereotypical agendas of the opposition starting personal attacks (Ad hominem) instead of debating the issues which all too commonly end up closing the thread...which I believe is the goal...and even if it weren't because of ignorance of how a debate should ethically proceed it is a sorry approach for a Christian to be instigating such things to get their way in an argument over a theological issue they feel strong about by changing the attack toward the person.
     
  20. DrJamesAch

    DrJamesAch
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,427
    Likes Received:
    0
    Divide and conquer!! 'At a boy!!

    Unfortunately for you, most of the people here that have some common sense are not only aware of the pig picture you sent me, but how you and your crash dummies follow every thread I make or comment on and out of your spite for me, end up derailing EVERYONE'S threads. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    All that anger is probably why you have so many health problems which leads to more anger which leads to more health problems. Proverbs 17:22. Try drinking less coffee and take the sugar out of your diet. Less agitation. For your anger problems, try some St. John's Wort. And if you're having problems sleeping, try Melatonin. You can probably find these 2 at K-Mart.:sleeping_2:

    Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...