A pastor to deacon...

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by rb, Jun 13, 2003.

  1. rb

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    This subject is intended to gather views regarding the subject... Can an ordained pastor of a particular church may ordain as a deacon? Is it possisble that due to absence of deaconate in the church should a pastor may ordain to this office? When no one in the congregation still no qualified yet... :confused:
     
  2. Deacon

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    Un-officially pastors have been doing the duties of a deacon since the office of deacon was begun.

    When there is no one else to do the job, the pastor does it.

    It is not the usual way things are done it's not forbidden but why be ordained to the office of deacon when he already is ordained? Elders are scarse enough as it is.

    Rob
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Ordain "elders"? Yep. Bible commands it.
    Ordain "deacons"? Give me chapter and verse.

    That is a tradition of the SBC and NOT biblical, right?
     
  4. Bible-boy

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    Dr. Bob,

    I agree 100%. However, that will likely have me branded as a liberal in certain SBC circles. So while I'm at it I'll go ahead and say that my fellow SBC churches that have ruling Deacon Boards, with authority to make decisions about the church (and telling the Pastor what to do), are not biblical either. [​IMG]
     
  5. chargrove

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    Uhhh...Bob, I think you've had a lapse of memory. How about, oh I don't know, 1 Timothy chapter 3?
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    Bakers Evangelical Dictionary says:

    DEACON: The institution of the technical office seems to be found in Acts 6. Although the noun "deacon" (diakonos [diavkono"]) does not occur, both diakoneo [diakonevw] and diakonia [diakoNIVa] are used, with emphasis resting more on the character of the men than any specific function. In this instance they cared for the needs of the Hellenistic widows and guaranteed fairness in the distribution of food. Their election was made jointly by the apostles and the congregation. It was determined that they must be men "full of the Spirit and wisdom" (v. 3). As one scans the Book of Acts, "fullness of the Spirit" almost always entails bold witnessing for the gospel of Christ (cf. Acts 1:8). That these men served in a manner transcending the traditional notion of deacon is clearly seen in the prophetic teaching activity of Stephen (Acts 6-7) and the evangelistic ministry of Philip (Acts 8).

    First Timothy 3:8-13 is the most complete account in Scripture addressing the office of deacon. (In Php 1:1; it is only mentioned as being an office along with that of the elders. ) As in Acts 6, the emphasis is again on character qualifications rather than function. In fact, the qualities necessary for eligibility run in close parallel to those for elders.


    Titus 1:5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation R25 or rebellion.


    1 Tim.3:8
    Likewise deacons

    1 Tim.3:10
    But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons,

    I agree with Chargrove on this one.

    Diane Tavegia
     
  7. Pastor Larry

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    i am with Bob on this one. Where does the Bible tell us to ordain deacons?? 1 Timothy 3 has nothing in it that I can find about ordaining them.
     
  8. dianetavegia

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    Acts 6:6 whom they set before the apostles; and when they had prayed, they laid hands on them.
     
  9. chargrove

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    Excellent post Diane.
     
  10. Istherenotacause

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    I'm afraid those who are confused about the ordaining of deacons fail to see the meaning of "search you out among yourselves" and "laying on of hands" as "ordaining".

    Accountability is the key to ordination; if a man is not found worthy of that "office" by those whom he is best known, then his accountability factor needs improving.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    I am pretty sure it is not us who are confused. The laying on of hands might be some form of ordination. The "search out among you" is most certainly not. That describes the process by which they were to be selected, i.e., congregational government.

    Accountability has nothign to do with ordination. Ordination is about approval or official recognition. If a man is not found worthy of the office, then he needs to be dismissed from the office.
     
  12. Istherenotacause

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    I am pretty sure it is not us who are confused. The laying on of hands might be some form of ordination. The "search out among you" is most certainly not. That describes the process by which they were to be selected, i.e., congregational government.

    Accountability has nothign to do with ordination. Ordination is about approval or official recognition. If a man is not found worthy of the office, then he needs to be dismissed from the office.
    </font>[/QUOTE]They are sought out for the sole purpose of being approved and by their being accountable to be placed in the position of a deacon. Then to those whom they remain accountable are approved by the laying on of hands thus ordaining them for that office. Else how can a man be worthy of that office if he is not accountable, prior to his being ordained? Else how is it he can be found unworthy to be dismissed from that office yet having never been worthy from the beginning?

    I'm not confused, but it certainly is obvious that tradition has attempted to over-rule what is CLEARLY laid out in Scripture.

    Laying on of hands by the presbytery is approval, being that part of the ordination process, indicating due interrogation and the meeting criteria before saying,"I find this man worthy of the vocation in which he says the Lord has called him to perform".

    How is the man "sought out"? He is first found accountable, if he's not accountable, how could he possibly be considered for the position of a deacon? Also,since when is the deacon part of the governing authority in the church? Deacon means servant, having specific duties in taking care of the family of God, never having any rule over any matters except in the absence of a pastor, then the pastor having the oversight, but still having the Lord in full control of the "government" of the church.

    Accountability has nothing to do with ordination? YOU'RE *MISTAKEN*!

    [ June 14, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Istherenotacause ]
     
  13. TomVols

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    I'm not real sure what you're asking. Please clarify.
    It's not just a tradition of the SBC, Dr. Bob.

    If what you mean is 'accountability doesn't just apply to ordination,' I agree completely. We don't "ordain" our Sunday school teachers, but they're as accountable as can be.

    When we think of ordination, it is important that we remember that our practice of ordination is not necessarily based on a practice that we see implicitly in the Bible. It is a tradition. That's not necessarily saying our tradition is something anti-Scriptural, but it is simply stating a fact.
     
  14. Istherenotacause

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    When we find something steeped in tradition we lay it aside and get back to the Bible.

    Accountability is the key to all Christian service, our positions in the household of God are NOT a cloke for anything considered otherwise immoral, deceitful, unjust, etc.

    We don't have any "swinging" deacons around here, the last one of those we had got mad because the pastor announced another revival a couple of weeks after the previous one, that "deacon" stood up and said, "I'm tired of this * *" and walked out. We're still wondering if he was tired of revival or just tired of coming to church. Of course it was laid out that if he wanted to be a deacon then he would have to be as accountable as the song leader and show up for the meeting. He is now a deacon in a more traditional church which has only one "campmeeting" a year and no revivals, just a series of meetings. :rolleyes:
     
  15. dianetavegia

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    So where are the step by step rules for ordaining ELDER's in scripture where the work LIKEWISE THE DEACON'S is not included? I found the accountability requirements for elders and their wives but again it's followed by Likewise the deacon's.....

    I am not being flippant but spent quite a bit of time on Crosswalk doing searches in scripture and can't find any. Can anyone show me?

    We don't have ELDERS in our church and looking at the requirements for them, their wives and their whole families.... I understand why!

    Thanks!
    Diane Tavegia
     
  16. TomVols

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    What's a swinging deacon? [​IMG]
     
  17. Istherenotacause

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    One that "swings" in and out as he pleases and refuses to be accountable to the congregation.
     
  18. dianetavegia

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    So where are the step by step rules for ordaining ELDER's in scripture where the words LIKEWISE THE DEACON'S is not included? I found the accountability requirements for elders and their wives but again it's followed by Likewise the deacon's.....

    I am not being flippant but spent quite a bit of time on Crosswalk doing searches in scripture and can't find any. Can anyone show me?

    We don't have ELDERS in our church and looking at the requirements for them, their wives and their whole families.... I understand why!

    Thanks!
    Diane Tavegia
     
  19. Artimaeus

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    As usual, our discussions seem to do what my father called, "getting off on rabbit trails". The question was, can a pastor be officially appointed to also be a deacon? The first church's elders had been doing all of the work (both eldering and deaconing). They decided that this was too much work for them and divided up the chores. If a church only has one elder then he is already doing all of the work and there is no point in officially appointing to him duties which he is already performing. The whole point of having a deacon is to take some of the physical load off the elder(s).
     
  20. Istherenotacause

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    The proceeding scripture is for those who "feel" accountability has no part in the ordaining of deacons:

    Acts 6:1 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
    2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
    3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
    4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
    5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
    6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
    7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
    8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

    I'd look over verses 3 and 4 real good before I'd make such an outlandush statement that accountability has "nothing" to do with ordaining a deacon.

    Also, as Diane has pointed out, there are no places found that separates the office of a deacon to be any less qualified in charater of the individual, as in "likewise the deacons".

    Part of the reason the church is in such a mess is because of the failure of the local church to obey Acts 6 in "appointing" deacons, too many "friendships" over-ride the scripture.

    In ration, the church at Antioch had 7 deacons for at least 3120 members, we were at a church in our "learning" process that believes everychurch is supposed to have 7 deacons, no matter how few or many the members, talking about a mess!
     

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