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How does your persecution compare to what Jesus experienced and what Paul expereinced. Welcome to real Christianity. Satan loves to make people ineffective and focused away from Christ and onto themselves.

How are you applying Heb 3:13 and Heb. 10:24, 25 and how are you making a positiver difference in the lives of others?

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb. 10:23-25 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging [one another]; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Seldom do I see someone who does not attend church making disciples and making a difference in the lives of others.

 

Are you trying to demean his experiences with churches?

Maybe he does not except that type of Christianity. What you say to him sounds more like something Satan would say. How do you get that he is taking focus away from Christ by not wanting to be a part of an organization he does not fully believe in or approve of?

Those scriptures are about those around us; it is about your family and friends.

How do you think sitting in a church can make disciples of others? Not everyone is a preacher or a teacher.

 

Sounds to me like you have not been spurring anyone on to do right, or else they are just not listening to you. Maybe they should be removed from the church until they repent.

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

 

True believers are the church. If he is a true believer, he is part of the body. It is not about a building.

 

When you find a perfect church do not join it because you will ruin it.

Jesus gave the command not me. It would help if you studied how Jesus made disciples.

 

What a rotten thing to say.

Maybe if you studied and obeyed Jesus’ commands, you would not speak to people as you do. When churches start doing something about people like you who attend, then I might go.

 

Show me the scriptures that Jesus says sitting in a church makes disciples of others.

 

You don't get it. Are you unable to think that the person I directed my comments to is capable of answering for himself? Or are you a person who sticks their nose in where it does not belong?

Maybe you need to consider the truth first instead of living your life according to your feelings.

If your feelings are so easily hurt then perhaps you should not engage in debate.

How many disciples have you made?

 

What you say here is a bunch of nonsense.

 

If you are not fellowshipping with others then you are in sin. Do a study on the word disciple and read it for yourself. Even a simple search in a concordance would do.

What pew did Jesus' disciples sit in?

 

I knew you could not show scripture that says sitting in a church makes disciples. I see you just want to argue about nothing. I am finished with this discussion.

 

You could try studying see what scripture teaches instead of trying to SYI. If you had then you would not have to ask such a foolish question.

 

I laughed when I read your response although no doubt I should not have... we as human beings are keen to denounce our neighbours flaws and sins by shouting them aloud, but when it is our own flaws and sins we are very shy of admitting them.

Even so, in Christian charity neighbours do try to help each other when it can be done in humility and dignity.

To turn them out of the Church is excommunication...is that what you practice....dear me, the good Lord sat down with sinners all shades of filth and ghastliness....because in showing loving kindness is more likely to win back to the fold the sinner than to cast them adrift....

"He that is without sin among you,let him first cast a stone at her."
John 8:7

 

Nowhere did I say not to do it in the biblical way.

I did not say anything about excommunication.

When did Jesus not tell these sinners to sin no more?

No one is talking about killing anyone, so do not post that scripture thinking it goes against me. Now, find out what the Bible says about people who do things you said they do in your church. I will wait to see what you post.

 

There are all kinds of people in churches today. Some are wolves. Some are genuine believers. Some are thieves. You will find everything in the church that is in the world. Was not the Bible written to believers and for believers. I know exactly what you are going through. I have been there. I was asked to leave a church that I pastored which was experiencing incredible growth (2.4 times in 15 months) where people were coming in the door from as far as 40 miles away. God was alive but so was Satan. Near the same time I know another man who was asked to leave his church that grew from 75 to about 575 in six years. Satan is alive and will continue to harass the person who lives exclusively for Jesus. What else should we expect. Too little has been said today about men and women who live for Christ and take the risk of doing what is right. Too many are taught that everything will be good for the genuine follower of Christ.

I am at a point now where I expect harassment from Satan and those he will try to use to detour me. While at the same time God has changed my attitude and is using me more. I am a much happier person because I expect the enemy to be the deceiver and father of lies. Two years ago I had it happen again. The lies came from a non-Christian who sought to squash me and he told a number of lies about me and not one of them were true. Those who have known me for over 30 years really know who I am but there are those who get the light shined on them who hate what I stand for and who I am. In the end God gets the glory and I am more passionate and focused than ever.

The Bible says to count it all joy. So get on and expect people to disappoint you. The older I get the more of that I see everywhere. The real issue remains with me and my God.

Jesus was not exempt from evil and antagonism and neither was Paul and neither are we. My suggestion is that God will teach you to completely focus on Him and keep on the straight and narrow path through the struggle. Few get to experience what that is like. Once you experience it you will never be the same.

While I do not go to a perfect church and I am not perfect but I am amazed and highly encouraged that God would even choose to use me. I came from a hell on earth home growing up. My wife came from a home where church was not an issue. They were not believers. Today most of her family and my family are believers. Life is not the same as it once was.

My suggestion would be to stay focused on Christ and do his will. You are letting Satan distract you by taking a look at everything else but Christ and the ways of the world. You will see what you want to see. Recently a young man was the pastor or a poor church and when he began to make disciples they asked him to leave. He is now planting a church and God has used him more in the last three months than in the previous dead church in the past three years. Now He knows what God does and how little impact he has when God is mot in it.

If you do not find a church you like then start one.

 

Steve, by reading your Scriptures you've been made aware that these things would be in the church. Tares & wheat &c. But you're shocked when you see it in reality, and are bitter at the Church over what you know to be addressed in Scripture, as to what things would take place and come to pass?

 

So what did the antagonists do with Jesus? Did they always treat him well? Did they always follow Him? My Bible says they will mistreat you too. One indicator that you are a follower is that you will have a following by those who Satan is trying to use. Churches are dealing with the spiritual domain of this world. I have seen people do things that would seem out of character in a church that they would never think of doing in the work place because their employer would terminate them.