A Physical Return of Christ in the future

Looks like the writers of the HCSV stand with me on this one

A little copy and paste from biblegateway.com from 1 Corinthians 15. Check it out for yourself. Seems their team of translators don't agree with you. You'll of course note the bold & underlined description of those verses is their description not mine although I couldn't have said it better myself.

The Nature of the Resurrection Body

35 But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have when they come?" 36 Foolish one! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And as for what you sow—you are not sowing the future body, but only a seed, perhaps of wheat or another grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He wants, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same flesh; there is one flesh for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is different from that of the earthly ones. 41 There is a splendor of the sun, another of the moon, and another of the stars; for star differs from star in splendor. 42 So it is with the resurrection of the dead:

Sown in corruption, raised in incorruption;

43 sown in dishonor, raised in glory;

sown in weakness, raised in power;

44 sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: The first man Adam became a living being ; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

47 The first man was from the earth and made of dust;

the second man is from heaven.

48 Like the man made of dust, so are those who are made of dust;

like the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.

49 And just as we have borne the image of the man made of dust,

we will also bear the image of the heavenly man.


Victorious Resurrection

50 Brothers, I tell you this: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption. 51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery:

We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible,

and we will be changed.

53 Because this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility,

and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

54 Now when this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility,

and this mortal is clothed with immortality,

then the saying that is written will take place:

Death has been swallowed up in victory.

55 O Death, where is your victory?

O Death, where is your sting?

56 Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory

through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58 Therefore, my dear brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always excelling in the Lord's work, knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

 

And if you read the whole context it is clear that the resurrection hasn't happened yet. That hasn't stopped you, though, from claiming that it happened in 70 AD.

Those verses also do not describe the complete nature of the resurrected body, rather it contrasts it somewhat with the natural body you have now. How is it different? We aren't told save these few facts: the spiritual body is incorruptable, while the natural is corruptable; the spiritual body is immortal, while the natural is mortal; the spiritual body will manifest Christ's victory over death. Aside from that, we really aren't told much.

 

1 Corinthians 15:50 is speaking of our mortal bodies we have now, our sinful flesh. That does not negate the fact that we will be raised in new incorruptable bodies.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

When a Christian dies, their body goes into the grave, but their spirit goes directly to God. So, these verses are speaking of the resurrection of our bodies, not spirit. It is the body that is in the grave, not our spirit.

I showed you before in Ezekiel where God would resurrect bodies. God caused the bones to come together and caused sinews, flesh, and skin to come upon them. He then breathed life into these men. This is showing a physical resurrection.

Phil 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Here is yet another verse that shows we will have bodies. It is not the old body, the body of flesh and blood, the sinful flesh. It is a new body fashioned like unto the Lord's glorious body, the body Jesus had when he rose from the dead.

 

LOL, its reassuring to know our SBC preachers have their feet on the ground, their heart in the truth, and their head in reality.

 

Good bye Winman

Winman's posts are too long to quote. His words always baffle me and his is logic is too painful to follow. Sometimes he seems to in a round about way come back to support my position (full preterist), but who knows.

Winman God bless you, I'm sure we'll be friends in heaven. If we ever meet in person I'm sure we could be good friends, but I'm just don't have the time to sort out your position and try to make sense of your scriptural quotes and how they fit the topic at hand.

I'm not going to respond to your posts any more either.

God bless you and good bye.

 

Translation: I can't refute his arguments from scripture, so I will simply ridicule them.

 

Lastday

Preterists who believe the Gospel also believe Christ came in AD 70.
They are sincere in applying the fulfillment of Mark 9:1 to that date.
They do not realize it must be fulfilled when Rev.12:10-14 is fulfilled.
Mel Miller

 

Members of Baptist Board:

When I answered the Poll, I wrote that it is not necessary to "part ways" in the claim of
faith in Christ; but I must add that full Preterism automatically cannot be taught as the
truth in the same Church or Body of Christ...for it allows the denial of the doctrine of the future physical resurrection of all Believers AS WELL AS the future literal return of Christ in His physically glorified body!

Use of the Perfect Participle in 2 John 7 regarding His having come in the FLESH requires that Christ always remains in (glorified) FLESH!!

Otherwise, this false doctrine is of "antichrist" and breeds of pure Gnosticism!!!
Mel Miller

 

Greetings Mel,

Being a proud Southern Baptist all my life and having turned from the Gnosticism of dispensationalism and embracing full preterism—I beg to differ.

But even before I realized that the apostles taught Christ’s coming in their generation thus making them full preterists as well—which forces me to align myself with the apostles as a full preterist I didn’t believe the glorified body would be flesh and bone. After all the bible tells us flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. The glorified body has to be spiritual.

Further 1 Corinthians 15:44 tells us sown in the flesh, risen in the spirit. Don’t make the mistake of toying with tense to the extent of coming in contradiction with the bible.

Here John is simply alluding to John 1.14. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us… Preterists very much see Jesus as flesh when he came to us on earth. Now we see us as becoming spirit in the glorified body to enter the kingdom of heaven. And, I’ll be perfectly glad to leave this body behind in order to enter heaven.

Best Regards,

Your fellow Virginian, Logos1

 

Lastday

Logos1

Well, we can have fellowship by sharing the same faith for eternal life.
We cannot share the experience of glorified physical bodies in your view.
I wonder how you explain the non-spirit body of Christ's Post Resurrection.

In my view, the spiritual body will be a glorified body of "flesh and bones"
as indicated by Jesus...a spiritual body of "flesh" in which He continues to
live as the God-Man...and confirmed by the perfect participle of 2 John 7.
To return with Him in GLORY as a non-flesh spirit offers no sense of a true resurrection of what dies...the resurrected physical seed must be knowable
as the same person in bodily form and that, IMO, requires a future body like
that of the Resurrected Body of Jesus in "flesh and bones".

Jesus said He was NOT a "spirit" as we think of a non-physical experience.
We could not share related doctrinal truths in a given Fellowship. So, let's
agree simply to disagree. OK?
Mel

 

Hello Mel,
Yes we will have to agree to disagree. When Christ was on earth the last 40 days after the resurrection at least part of the time he was in a physical body. No problem with that.

He needed to be in a physical body to finish his work on earth. And, when people were raised from the dead they too were in a physical body, but they of course later died again—they were not in a glorified body.

We are not Gods and won’t have any business to complete on earth after we die. We don’t need a physical body. Everything the bible tells us about our glorified body indicates it will be spiritual in nature. I’m ok with that. I don’t need to hang on to a physical body. Heaven in a spiritual body will be better than anyplace else in a physical body.

 

Jesus left in a physical body, and the angels said this "same Jesus" would come in like manner as ye have seen him go.

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

That we also shall have physical bodies when we rise from the dead is shown many times in scripture.

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job said even though his body will decompose in the grave, yet in his "flesh" shall he see God.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Jesus here shows that we will eat in heaven. A spirit does not need to eat.

 

Paul tells us we would not know Christ in the flesh any longer

Paul tells us that we don't regard Christ in the flesh any longer. This rules out his coming back in the flesh.

2 Cor 5:16
From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer.

Pretty well wraps up this issue unless someone thinks they are more inspired than Paul.

 

Logos1
What do you believe the word "flesh" means that is different
relative to Christ's "natural" body and then His "spiritual body"?
Mel

 

The Spirit is saying this to the true Christians(church). Where it refers to the tree of life, it is refering to Jesus....meaning we partake of Him. He does feed our spirits, with Him!!

 

Lastday

Here Now
You write:

I believe you're wrong if you limit the eating of the Tree of Life to the Bride!
Throughout eternity the Kings of Earth will "eat of its leaves to be healed"!!
Earthly people still live in "normal" bodies; the Bride has "spiritual bodies"!!!
Read Exek.47:12; Rev.21:24-26; Rev.22:2,14.
Mel Miller

 

Lastday

Friends,

In the Poll, I voted for sharing the faith with Preterists; but NOW I realize I should have voted for "discipline"!
The Preterists on this Forum continue to bash doctrine after doctrine by
denying that Jesus continues in the "flesh".
Logos1 wrote:

SO I ASKED Logos1 about THE FOLLOWING and he did not respond:

Again I wrote:

I find no interest at all on the part of Full Preterists in recognizing the merits
of historic doctrine held by the great majority of evangelicals! Logos denies that Jesus remains in "flesh and bones" as He Himself proved to Thomas!!
His "body of flesh" was already glorified when He spoke these words...words that Logos1 not only doubts to this day; but actually denies!!!

I don't see how or why these denials can be tolerated on this Forum!
We should not authorize the direct contradiction of the words of Jesus!!
I propose that at least we make it clear that Full Preterism is anathema!!!
Mel

 

John Madden on the Sidelines

Ya’ll reckon Lastday is gonna blow a gasket or what? I suggest anyone and everyone read all my post and see just how many times I have responded to futurist posts. That having been said not every post deserves a response.

Relax Lastday. I don’t need to need to have my position validated by your approval. You should learn be confident in your own positions without having to get them validated by others. If you lack complete conviction in them yourself it weakens your position with others.

I don’t get upset and call people a heretic just because I disagree with them and worry about my case being so weak that only banning the “other side” can save my own position.

I don’t have to misrepresent the other side and put words in their mouth to make my case either.

I humbly suggest Lastday take a powder and a lesson from the old John Madden commercials and quit stomping up and down the sidelines and learn to relax.

“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

Thanks again Mel!