A Plea for Civility

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Old Union Brother, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
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    This post is being directed at both sides of the issue. I read on the BB but post very little because of the bitter vitriol that is that is constantly being spewed from both sides of the ever going debate. Yes, labels help us distinguish where someone stands, whether it be Cal/Dog/Non-cal/Arm. We have all came to our belief via some path. As I read posts, I am often reminded of what Paul wrote:

    And

    I have grown in my Christian walk because of many of you and enjoy reading the well thought out posts that many of you make. I wish our debates could be as the Psalmist wrote:

    And remember the words of our Savior:
     
    #1 Old Union Brother, Jan 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2012
  2. kyredneck

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    Thanks for the advice/reminder OUB. You're right.
     
  3. Van

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    One way would be to address positions rather than persons. Anytime you see a person's behavior rather than his or her position being discussed, you are seeing uncivil behavior. To disparage a position by disparaging the person is disingenuous, and therefore uncivil. Civil behavior requires we treat others with honesty rather than fallacy calculated to score points. This adds heat but not light.

    Now lets see what God was saying by considering the OP verses in context.

    1 Corinthians 8:2 seems to say if we think we know something, we do not think as we should. This parallels Paul's thought in 1 Cor. 3:18 which says we must become foolish in order to become wise. Which is to say do not lean on our own understanding but depend on the wisdom of God. Now to apply this to our BB discussions, we should rely more on what scripture says, and less the clever stories of men used to make scripture to no effect.

    Romans 12:3 say we should not come across as a know it all, but carefully choose our words so as to reach others rather than drive them away. Each of us was given a "measure of faith" when means an area or sphere of influence within the body of Christ, and for us to engage in our holy calling we must think soberly and bring more light than heat to our ministry efforts.
     
  4. Old Union Brother

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    Van said
    This is the kind of response that we need so let us support our positions with scripture.
     
  5. David Lamb

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    Yes, OUB, I agree. Whether the difference is on soteriology, eschatology, translations of the bible, styles of music used in worship....whatever....surely as Christians we should be able to discuss without rancour, hostility or bitterness. We can state our positions forcefully without being nasty.
     
  6. convicted1

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  7. preachinjesus

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    I think we should ask the administrators to create a script that would start this kind of thread every six weeks....cuz we all need it apparently.

    Honestly I don't know why some people get so crazy about these issues. It is why I, largely, stay out of these pointless (and horribly argued) discussions.
     
  8. DaChaser1

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    Disregard, personally edited as not to sin against anyone!
     
  9. David Lamb

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    I, for one, don't get "crazy" about it, but we clearly do need reminders, because many times (not just the odd once or twice), posts appear on the Baptist Board in which other posters are reviled, ridiculed, even despised. That surely is not the way we should behave as Christians.

    Take this exchange as an example (I have changed the details, so as not to be raking up old wounds):

    Poster A writes:
    You have no idea what you are writing about. Too bad.

    An adverb is not, has not ever been, and will never be a noun.
    One of my professors--a Ph.D in Hebrew--confirmed this to us many times. He made us parse bible passages in the original languages. We would never have gotten away with parsing an adverb as a noun.
    Poster B writes to Poster A later in same thread:
    You just can't win the debate so you make personal remarks. First, you fluff out your feathers by vaunting about your Phd professor and your superiority to the rest of us.....

    It's worth remembering that anyone with internet access can read our posts, and what idea do we give others about our Lord by rudeness? I know that when I said this before, someone asked me why a non-Christian would even be looking at our posts. I would say that there a number of reasons, including the fact that a Google search for a particular phrase that happens to have been used in a BB post, will bring that post up as one of the results.
     
  10. preacher4truth

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    Take it for what it's worth. A person makes a thread, then one comes in, not to discuss the points made, but to come in and use pejorative language, to call the OP names, "childish" "immature" "hypocritical" "snide" and judge the person starting a thread as such, which judgment is completely false and unfounded prattle.

    Then others sit back and allow this behavior to go on unchecked, and I'm not talking just about moderators. I'm talking brothers right here that should come in and make a statement and hold those accountable who do such things and ask the person to actually address the topic, and leave out the boorish and immature name calling. Some guys could actually use some help to dispell this behavior, instead of sitting on the outside making a post calling for a truce, which never really helps. If the person continues and turns on you as well, then report the person. Don't attack the fellow coming against the ones who initiate this who is trying to get the attacker to discuss the topic, instead, address the one initiating the bad behavior?

    And use proper judgment, don't just assume as many others that the one slinging mud, using pejorative language is correct. I've seen this too many times.

    Instead of this, we have a different tribe that comes in, one after another to top off the vitriol with their drive by comments that have nothing to do with the actual discussion at hand, not don't the topic, they simply address the OP with snide remarks to support the initiator of the vitriol. We have others who come along to help buffer and encourage this kind of behavior, making comments about how they feel about the OP, or one who has commented, after a tribe has made a few disparaging comments on the poster. Typically, the one who started the thread is attacked as being wrong, not the ones who come in and display their walk in that way I've described.

    Why not help the ones being attacked? Instead of sitting back watching it happen, why not report the one leveling pejoratives who is not adding to the discussion but simply calling names and being divisive?

    This tribe teams up to offer drive bys, instead of being reactive, why not be proactive, and team up for what's right?

    I'd dare say we don't have room to gripe if we haven't actually stepped in to protect some brothers and actually be proactive about the thing, and hold the ones coming into threads doing such things accountable.

    I say all this in love and peace, and hope all will consider to take a closer look at what is going on.

    - Peace
     
    #10 preacher4truth, Jan 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2012
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Well Done! :thumbs: I will also repeatedly add that the "IGNORE" feature used against those who are repeated "Bush Wackers" will help to at least stabilize things. At 1st I did not approve of it but after getting very angry with a hand full of mud slinger & crude individuals, I have used "Ignore" & never looked back....its actually refreshing.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I will tell you this in all honesty my brother, I do wish that they would offer you a position as moderator. You have the gravity & level headiness sorely needed on BB. :thumbs:
     
  13. David Lamb

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    I am very sorry, P4T, I think I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought that that whole post was about threads like this one; it seems from what you have just written that the second paragraph (beginning "Honestly I don't know why some people get so crazy", was meant to be about the threads where the nastiness occurs.

    Sorry for wasting your time. :)
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

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    David, I would characterize P4T to be a very "righteous" guy who stands up for the truth & does not waiver. However he also has a big heart & I believe he would have preferred not to have gotten into the dust up in the 1st place....he does it on an as needed basis & not for any love of scuffle. I admire that ....would that we had more like that; those that protect & defend the faith. The ones that you have to watch out for is the ones who just enjoy the fight for the stimulation of the bleeding fight!

    Civility is a measured term & sometimes you need to take a stand against what is considered wrong. P4T does that & I applaud his efforts :applause:
     
  15. preacher4truth

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    You've misunderstood me then David.

    My point is that in other threads folks rush in to make snide remarks and call the OP whatever they desire without ever discussing the topic at hand. Then said are joined by others to encourage others to do the same.

    That was my point of focus. Nothing was addressed toward you personally.
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    Brother, with all due respect to others whose walk is apparently off track, I can no longer go down with them into their arena and fight with their boorish attitudes. One can make a thread only to see another come in and display their walk before all others, even God.

    Let's put it this way, we have several in a little tribe, who come into threads offering nothing of substance theologically, and calling the OP and others in it smart remarks and add nothing less and nothing more than lending a hand to those who are being divisive. They encourage others to do the same. And this isn't just from the "indians" of the tribe either, I've seen encouragement of this come from higher up the totem pole. We are told to avoid those who do these things, so several have hit ignore. I will pray for them, but the thing is, and being honest, it is hard to, until I consider all the grievous sins He forgave me for.

    I honestly see these ensnared to this behavior, and they cannot see it, or they don't care that for these things Christ suffered and was nailed to a tree on their behalf, or, maybe as Peter says here, and I cannot say it better than the Holy Spirit, so here goes:

    Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you. 2 Peter 1:5-11
     
  17. David Lamb

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    Thanks, P4T. I assure you that although I misunderstood your earlier post, I didn't take it as addressed towards me personally.

    It seems that in trying to explain my misunderstanding - which was my fault entirely anyway :laugh: - all I have succeeded in doing is to confuse both you and EWF. My apologies to you both!

    The bottom line (I think) is that it turns out we agree that snide, nasty remarks have no place on the BB.
     
  18. matt wade

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    The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
     
  19. preacher4truth

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    My apologies as well. We're on the same page.

    And this: "Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." 2 Tim. 3:12. Or, they'll be called Pharisees? :laugh:
     
  20. David Lamb

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    I have already done more than my fair share of misunderstanding on this thread, so to prevent me adding even more, may I ask you Matt, are you suggesting that those (including me) who agree with the "plea for civility" are being like that Pharisee? If so, I must say that I, like others probably, was not saying: "Look at me! What a wonderful example of civility I am!" For myself, I know too well how easy it is to hit the "send" button too soon, and thus allow uncivility to appear.

    But I realise I may have misunderstood the reason for your quote.
     

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