A Problem with Christians

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by browes, May 13, 2008.

  1. browes

    browes
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just thought I'd bring up something I've been dealing with for the past several months.

    I work with a man who is one of the smartest individuals I know. I guess you would categorize him as seeker. He is very interested in Christianity, but he is reluctant to give his life to Christ.

    He and I have had several lengthy discussions about a multitude of questions and/or problems he's had. I believe I have satisfactorily answered many of his questions, and have even been able to get him to read the Bible for himself to "check my answers."

    I've noticed that during many of our discussions he would refer to many of the "Christians" he knows that don't live a Christian lifestyle. He doesn't use blanket statements as a cop out. He has several examples. Here are a few:

    A Methodist preacher (friend of his) asked him to go with him to a wedding in which he was performing so that he could be the preacher's designated driver for the after party. The preacher told him he planned to get plastered.
    He took an online NT survey class at a local junior college where the professor (a pastor working on his doctorate) would not respond to questions, or moderate the discussion boards. The pastor told them that he was too busy working on his doctorate and taking care of his to church to conduct class. So, my coworker was left frustrated.
    He was called a Satan worshiper for questioning the qualifications of a miracle. The local church he attended while growing up "preached to the choir" and never stepped outside of the church building to evangelize or help people withing the community.
    He's asked many of his "Christian" friends questions about what the Bible says about certain things, and/or why they believe what they do, and nearly all can not give an answer.
    The list goes on and on.

    I say all that to say this... I've come to realize that his problem isn't with God, or Jesus, or any Biblical doctrine. His problem is with Christians. He can't understand why they claim to have faith in Christ, but have lifestyles contrary to their claim. He can't understand how someone could have faith, but not be able to explain why they have faith. He can't understand why people aren't loving when they are supposed to represent a loving God.

    It just makes me wonder how many people are out there who'll never come to Christ because of the actions of "Christians."
     
  2. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you mean the actions of "liberal" Christians? The easy believism crowd? The toungue-speaking Benny Hinn charsimatic type?
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784

    And just how do we know that these people claiming to be Christians are? John 15
     
  4. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    A good response to his critical view of the hypocrites in action: Would you rather go to Heaven with the saved hypocrites or go to hell with the ones you keep judging all Christians by?

    Besides, salvation and a walk with God doesn't have anything to do with hypocrites or Christians for that matter, it has to do with one's own faith.

    Isaiah 4:1¶And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

    A "Christian" as your friend described would fit in the catagory with these women here: REBELS!
     
  5. Sopranette

    Sopranette
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe he doesn't understand that a saved individual is still going to sin. I have met others who are confused by this.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  6. Jkdbuck76

    Jkdbuck76
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,263
    Likes Received:
    64
    Your friend needs prayers.

    In any case, he needs to worry about himself and his salvation.

    It is like being here at work.... sure, plenty of people slough off, but I am responsible for me myself and I.

    Christ Himself is the standard, not other Christians. When we get to Judgement Day, "well, all those hipocrite christians blah blah blah....." will NOT cut it.

    If I refuse to do my job here at work and when the CEO calls me into his office, I cannot plead "well HR and Accounting and Production and Marketing aren't doing THEIR jobs, so I didn't feel like doing my own job." It is the CEO's job to handle AR and Accounting and Production and Markenting.

    Likewise, it is GOD'S job to deal with hipocrites.

    Do I suggest you confront your friend? No. But food for thought will be this: You are responsible for YOU on judgement day and what YOU did with God's Son.
     
  7. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya'll have hit on a topic that I've been very concerned with a lot lately myself. I've had quite a few discussions with my pastor about it lately. Easy believism has and continues to kill churches and the image of Christianity today. The problem is that too many churches don't do anything to contradict this notion and many even help promote "easy believism". What has happened to discipleship and accountability???

    Jesus warns us of this philosophy in his Sermon on the Mount. Matthew 7:13-14 says:

    13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
    14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


    And then he clarifies further in verse 16 that "You will know them by their fruits..."


    I'm afraid that many churches today are filled with people that will be in hell. Yet a good many of these people will believe themselves to be "Christians".



    :praying: I pray that this philosophy of "easy believism" will not continue.
     
  8. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think we have to be VERY careful with this statement. While your statement is true, it doesn't give us the freedom to continue in sin. Christianity isn't a once in a lifetime "decision". It's a life change. And when Christians do sin there is a deep remorse and sorrow for the transgression against our Heavenly Father. Repentance isn't something you do once and forget it... continual repentance is the fruit of a Christian.
     
  9. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    AMEN!! Preach on brother. While some "Christians" provide an excuse for others not to become Christians, there is NO excuse not to follow God's commandments for yourself! Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
     
  10. Sopranette

    Sopranette
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand that, but I wonder if he does. I have met others who expect a saved person never sins again, that they somehow become perfectly behaving as Christians after accepting Christ in their lives.

    love,

    Sopranette
     
  11. Salamander

    Salamander
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
    Those people have a higher expectation than God. they have placed themselves on the throne of judgement and forget we NEED I John 1:9 as Christians, not as evil doers.
     
  12. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    If God is soverign this can not be true, only when man is in control of God can this be true.
     
  13. browes

    browes
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    I definitely agree. I have explained to my coworker that you shouldn't judge Christ by the actions of fallible man, but by Christ Himself. I do believe that God is working on him. I see him opening up little by little.
     
  14. lbaker

    lbaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe the guy in the OP just isn't one of the Elect?
     
  15. nodak

    nodak
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    15
    Or maybe he is just making excuses as he rejects prevenient grace.
     
  16. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was waiting for someone to make that statement.
     
  17. nunatak

    nunatak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread reminds me of a Keith Green song.

    "I know I'm such a bad example
    And you know I'm, so full of pride.
    But Jesus isn't like that.
    No he's perfect all the way.
    I guess that's why we need him,
    It's why ourselves, there's just no way."
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    What does that make a person who stands behind a hypocrite.

    In this world are many counterfeits but not many genuine. That is true for almost everything.

    Nobody counterfeits an imitation.
     
  19. nunatak

    nunatak
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    1Sa 16:6 When they arrived, Samuel noticed Eliab and said to himself, "Surely, here before the LORD stands his chosen king!"
    1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Don't be impressed by his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. God does not view things the way men do. People look on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
     
  20. Hawkins

    Hawkins
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that's fair enough. Actually, that's why we are called the sinners. That's why we need to be saved, not by our own but by our Lord Jesus. So don't let the sinners and their behaviour be your stumbling block. God is there independent of how those sinners behave. It's almost stupid to turn away from God just because of the sinners, isn't it?

    We can't answer all questions, that's why we need faith to believe in God. If on the other hand, we can answer all sort of questions, we don't need faith any more. For the same reason, we don't need faith to believe in science, as science might (just might) seem to be able to answer questions to your satisfaction that you don't need faith. If Christianity is just like science (actually I find that Christiantity is very much like science), we don't need faith at all. In that case, we can't be saved as it's clearly stated in the convenants that faith is needed for us the sinners to be saved.

    On the other hand, almost everything about Chirstianity has its own answer which comes to everyone's satisfaction. Yet, 1) you need to believe with faith first then in the hope that God the Holy Spirit will reveal it to you. 2) even answers by far failed to come to your satisfaction, it only means that it's not the proper time as God sees for those misterious knowledge to be revealed yet. So just keep your faith and hope. That's how faith works and God will decide the best for us.

    On the other hand, it's our arrogance to insist on that evidence shall be shown first before we take our leap of faith. As it's stated clearly that we will be saved by faith. That says, God will reveal you everything to your satisfaction such that you can't be saved?????????????? :BangHead:

    My 2 cents. :godisgood:
     

Share This Page

Loading...