a pulpit or stage

John 10:13 - The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

Wow, talk about abusing scripture. If you read the verse in CONTEXT, you'll notice that Jesus is talking about two people: the shepherd, and the hired hand who works for the shepherd. He says the hired hand runs away, while the shepherd stays and protects his sheep. He also says he's the shepherd, and that he knows his sheep. He's saying that it's not through a hired hand that you enter the kingdom of heaven, but through the shepherd.

This has nothing to do with pastors and pay. You make a mockery of the verse when you use it in such a way.

[ February 19, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

Not if he's using scripture as a tool for his own pleasure, clearly not.

 

Really, when I read Matthew 23 IN CONTEXT (something you appear to lack the ability to do), it's clear that Jesus is talking about people who say one thing, but don' tpractice what they preach. The chapter starts by saying, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."

It has nothing to do with tithing, or sending kids to seminary, or, well, anything else you imply.

 

Herc,

What a terrible indictment of many fine men of God, not only in the SBC , but all men who's churches supply their needs. To be sure there are bad pastors, elders and overseers, but to make such a blanket statement using a passage of Scripture that does not fit is beyond decency. You have called all pastors receiving pay hirelings and false teachers. You slam believers who say they are sure of their salvation, not because of their good works, but because of God's promise. Not that I think it would do any good but read in your Bible 1 John 5:13 for God's assurance of salvation. Also, read in I Timothy 5:17-19 to find out the New Testament teaching concerning providing for the pastor. I am a pastor who is grateful first to God for the church family that gives to meet my temporal needs, so I can minister to their eternal needs. I do not do it for pay, and pay does not enter in to what I share. I will pray for you as you seem to be very judgmental and angry and unable to see past your own narrow and incorrect views of Scripture.
Bro Tony

 

Herc,

Just love that example of Christian love, brother.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Herc,

I will pray for you, but not for spite but because Jesus loves you. He even loves you in your ignorance. You do not know me nor do you know how many years I preached and served without compensation. Your narrow minded diatribes lack any biblical understanding and certainly no Christian love. May God show you His wonderful grace and draw you to His wonderful Word rather than leaving you in the pit. You said this would be the end of the subject and I will agree to that as I do not wish to cast my pearls in the wrong direction.
Bro Tony

 

God is God of all His creation. He is not Father to all. It's something called the free will of man. Accept or reject, Christ does not push Himself on anyone.
Your doctrine IS NOT BAPTIST!!!!!!
In Christ,
Peggy

 

What an ugly spirit.

 

Trying to divide?

 

I'm sure somebody will doubt that.

 

And the ignorance continues. To even state that all SBC churches agree on the doctrine of grace shows how little you know about churches outside your narrow view of experience. Their are both calvinistic and armenian congregations in the SBC,and every shade in between. Although they do not all agree they usually see this issue as an in-house debate that does not divide the fellowship. For a person who says he can't know of his salvation, you sure seem to be dogmatic about that which you are clearly ignorant of. Remember that stating that you are ignorant does not imply that you are stupid, just that you don't know what you are talking about. May the Spirit of God pour His love and grace on you that you will be able to debate differences without condemning others that do not agree with you. Until that happens I will not discuss topics with you again. The Bible tells me to avoid the useless wranglings of men.

In His Grace
Bro Tony

 

I did not say that man does any of the "savin" but, God can only save the man who first realizes his need for Salvation. You said you understand believing, but not accepting/rejecting. These are one and the same.
If you do not believe you reject the truth. Plain and simple. How you word it is of little consequence. i just thought you were saying you could be saved and " not even know it"?
In Christ,
Peggy

 

check?