A question about AV1611.com

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Thermodynamics, Jul 3, 2009.

  1. Thermodynamics

    Thermodynamics
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    I have been exploring some web pages that deal with Bible translations and ran across the webpage mentioned in the title of this thread.

    I have made no secret of the fact that I hold a KJVP position. I prefer the KJV because I believe it is the best avaliable translation and that it is based on a better set of manuscripts. If you don't agree with me, I have no problem with that, I have friends who use other translations and are great Christians.

    When I look at this website which seems to hold to a radical KJVO position I can't help but wonder if these people are actuailly worshiping the King James Bible rather than it's Author?

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Baptist4life

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  3. sag38

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    Thermo I would hate to think they are worshiping the Bible and I don't think they are. But, then again.....
     
  4. annsni

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    It certainly does seem like they are worshipping the KJV and there has been atleast one man who was a staunch KJV who said that the "Word" in John 1:1 shows that God is the KJV. ..... I'm serious ..... I do not mind someone who has truly studied the issue who feels that the KJV is the best version for them to use but I do find that there are many lies put forth about other versions that are passed around and just believed by so many without any study. I find that sort of thing is the making of cults - where there are followers just taking someone's word for truth without studying it to be sure it is true. I don't think every KJVO person is worshipping the KJV but that many are misguided. But as I said, I do understand choosing the KJV as it is a wonderful version and one that has withstood the test of time - and one that many of us used for so many years and it's comfortable to us - comforting and feels "right". :)
     
  5. Thermodynamics

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    Thank you Ann for your very thoughtful reply. I did not mean to suggest that all (or even most) people who hold a KJVO position worship the King James Bible. However, there does appear to be this "lunatic fringe" out there who have crossed the line into outright idolatry.

    I find it offensive that they would claim perfection for a translation that was crafted by purely human effort.

    I also find it sad that other groups, like the Trinitarian Bible Society, who hold a moderate KJVO/KJVP position would find themselves lumped into the same class as the idol worshipers at AV1611.com.

    By the way (and this is not intended as a plug for the Trinitarian Bible Society as much as they might deserve one), the position of the TBS is that the King James is the best avaliable English translation of the Bible, but they also clearly state that the KJV is not perfect. The TBS gives away thousands of Bibles, I wonder how many AV1611.com has given away?
     
  6. Samuel Owen

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    It is no secret to anyone here, I am a KJV preferred person, although some still seem to call that KJVO.

    I own other versions, and commonly use the NASB along with the KJV, in Bible studies.

    I too feel that being a fanatic fringe radical, does your position more harm than good. And the thought of worshiping the alter, rather than the sacrifice has also crossed my mind ( the book more so, than the Author ).

    In fact a person, who lives a stones throw from me, was banned from that board yesterday. Because he stated he did not feel any translation made by man, could be 100% accurate. Whether I feel that way or not, I could not ban someone for that statement alone. In fact if he were 95.5% sure, I might even convince him 100%, but not by being radical.

    I imagine he has not anything good to say, about the 1611 Forum right about now. And is now more convinced than before, no translation can be 100% acurate. And be 100% the plainer inspired word of God. :tear:
     
  7. Tater77

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    I guess I have it lucky at Church then. In my Sunday school class we have those who are KJV preferred working with three using an NASB and then three using an NIV.

    And we all get along and learn from all three.

    But yes many do cross the line and get to near idolatry with the KJVO position. A good friend of mine quoted John 1:1 to me and equated the KJV with "the Word" in that verse. My heart sank and I haven't tried to speak to him about it since. He tried to "indoctrinate" me last year, but I'm blessed with too much God given common sense to have been sucked in.
     
  8. rbell

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    Right you are.

    Av1611.org (is THAT what you meant? That's the one I see quoted more, and it's the one I'm more familiar with) is a bad site...because they are willing to post urban legends as fact. They don't check their sources. They will intentionally take a person's quoe out of contextAnd in some matters (music comes to mind), they are willing to knowingly slander an individual--fellow believers, no less--simply to make a point. (I'm saying "fellow believers," but that, of course, is giving the AV1611.org folks a huge benefit of the doubt.)

    Finally...they are simply legalists. Living a "Christian" but having your acts be indistinguishable from the world is a big problem. But likewise...adding your set of standards beyond what God has set forth, and then using that standard to judge others...well now, that's also a major problem.
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    Honestly? After reading some of the idiotic things they've written about music, I never even bothered to see what they had to say about anything else. After reading some of the rantings about the alleged evils of some kinds of music, they just don't have any credibility with me.
     
  10. franklinmonroe

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    You mean the author of this OP?
     
  11. Samuel Owen

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    I am not familiar with all the board names here, but looking at Thermodynamics profile; it certainly looks like the same.
     
  12. Thermodynamics

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    Yes, I joined the forum over there to try to explore their position and understand where they were coming from. I believe I was always polite and respectful to all of them. Some of them seem to be nice sincere people, while other appear to want to force their position on everyone else.

    At any rate I was banned for quoting the "Translators to the Readers," (which is the original preface o the King James Bible) and for stating that there are obvious errors (by the translators own admission) in translation in said Bible version.

    I believe that statement on my part is objective truth. However, they consider it attacking the Word of God.

    For my part I am happy to stand on the side of the original King James translators, 98% of Baptists, the Trinitarian Bible Society and this Baptist Board in my position that the King James Bible is a superb translation that has been unusually blessed and used by God, but that it is a human work which does contain minor errors.

    I refuse to worship anything other than God Himself, I will not worship any translation, version or edition of the Bible. I believe a few of the people on AV1611.com have crossed the line and make the King James version into an idol. Those people are in my prayers!

    It should also be noted that Sam is not one of those people.
     
  13. robycop3

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    That gang appears to be staunchly pro-Ruckman, and homeboys for "pastor" Steve Anderson of the "Faithful Word baptist Church", who FREELY ADMITTED worshipping the KJV on the "Fighting Fundamentals Forum. I believe Dr. Bob can attest to this.

    I was banned from there before I could even post(guess my rep as anti-KJVO precedes me), but I have called out individual members from there, including the ownership, for some debating.(There are ways of getting around bans, if one wishes.) They consistently refuse; they just don't like losing nor hearing the TRUTH.
     
  14. Samuel Owen

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    Well I guess? that if they have noticed the Bible versions page, on my site. Even though I state, I don't personally recommend any version except the KJV, they are probably out to get me also.

    It seems on their basis of principles, that would be enough. But since I have not posted anything questionable, on their forum maybe not ??. It really does not matter to me. I have never worshiped a book, and I am not starting this late in life. :)

    #PS. I really don't! have anything to say about Peter Ruckman either!.
     
  15. Thermodynamics

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    I keep hearing the name Ruckman, who is this guy? Does anyone have a link to a biography?
     
  16. Salty

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    #16 Salty, Jul 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2009
  17. Thermodynamics

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    Thank you SCB, that was a real eye-opener! One of the things that there was a lot of buzz about on the AV1611 forum was an upcoming "Study Bible" by Mr. Ruckman, a lot of the folks there were very excited about getting one (or more) of them.

    Among the things that caught my eye in that article:

    "In 1959, after several separations, Ruckman's first marriage was dissolved. Ruckman has since been divorced again and married a third time."

    "Ruckman claimed to have had paranormal experiences during this period, including (in his words) "the experience of nirvana, which the Zen call samadhi, the dislocation of the spirit from the body."

    "Ruckman insists that the King James Version of the Bible, the "Authorized Version" ("KJV" or "A.V."), provides "advanced revelation" in English beyond that discernible in the underlying Textus Receptus Greek text."

    "in his Christian's Handbook of Manuscript Evidence, Ruckman says, "Mistakes in the A.V. 1611 are advanced revelation!"

    "Ruckman also believes that the Septuagint was a hoax created by the Alexandrian cult in the 3rd century A.D. in order to subvert belief in the integrity of the Bible."

    "Although Ruckman graduated from Bob Jones University, he has referred to it as "the World's Most Unusual Hell Hole."

    "His unusual ideas extend beyond the Bible as well. Ruckman believes in UFOs and blue aliens with blue blood, black aliens with green blood, and gray aliens with clear blood."

    "Further, he believes that the CIA has implanted brain transmitters in children, old people, and African-Americans and that the agency operates underground alien breeding facilities."

    I guess you could call Mr. Ruckman "interesting."
     
  18. Thermodynamics

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    On the cover of one of his books, Ruckman depicts a King James Bible dying on the cross instead of Jesus!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. tinytim

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    In the words of Barney Fife...

    "That guy's a NUT!"
     
  20. Samuel Owen

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    Well that's just a short list. There is more, like his version of when the Soul enters an unborn child. "Not before it draws its first breath".

    This excuses abortion before full birth. :eek:

    And that's not all either, but I have said enough. To repeat, I have nothing to say about Peter Ruckman.
     

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