A question about Calvinism

Taken literally that would mean you have never read the Bible. Jesus Christ is called the Word. I suggest starting with the Gospel of John.

However I do reject the term Calvinism when applied to Baptists. I prefer The Doctrines of Grace, as I have said numerous times before.

 

You need to actually read your own links which you think support your views. The Wikipedia article says :"MacArthur is a conservative Baptist."

Of course Baptists are a diverse lot -- the BB is testimony of that fact. But JM is a conservative Baptist. Of course one can add other things as well -- a "leaky dispensationalist", an expository preacher, a soteriological Calvinist etc.

 

Your contention is rubbish.

 

What specific "liberal denomination" are you referencing?

 

We get it straight from Scripture!

 

What a strange reply?

I mean followers of Christ.

Again, I don't doubt that many Calvinists are Christians (followers of Christ), but I don't believe they developed this doctrine from the teachings of Christ.

 

I don't believe so; I think it is a man-made doctrine that is developed from taking the teachings of men like John Calvin and using the Scriptures in a way that seems correct, but is wrong.

I don't expect you to agree, but I think Calvin has done much to hinder the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I understand how one can believe it, but I think it denies God's choice to give man free will.

Rippon: As far as my posting being rubbish, I think you, as usual, get upset at those who don't agree with you and resort to name-calling. I think if you were as secure in your beliefs as you think you are, you would not allow differing views to upset you so much.

There are many good Christians on both sides of this argument, I just believe that the Calvinistic viewpoint is incorrect.

 

[Personal attack edited] Before I even knew what the doctrines of grace was called I found it in Scripture, then I found the name and everything is in Scripture. [Personal attack edited.]

 

It's perfectly fine for you to say that you think the Calvinistic viewpoint is incorrect. However, it is a completely diferent matter for you to say that Jesus Christ is not the source of our doctrine.

 

Did you actually read what I wrote?

"Read the biography at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._MacArthur"

The church MacArthur pastors is not a Baptist Church. It is a non-denominational church. Could one post on the BB as a Baptist if he pastors a non-denominational church? Through a simple reading of that article you would notice that he received his doctorate from Talbot which is nota Baptist seminary. He received his masters from Biola which is not a Baptist school. He transfered from Bob Jones University Azusa. Azusa is far removed from being Baptist?

Under the heading "Theological Views" as you did quote he is a conservative Baptist in his theology. Most non-denominational churches hold to many of the same theological points of view as Baptists. He is about as much Baptist as one who pastors a non-denominational church would be.

Master's Seminary is not a Baptist Seminary. In fact it was initially supported by Talbot Seminary which is not a Baptist seminary.(http://www.tms.edu/AboutHistory.aspx)

Whiuch part of MacArthur is Baptist in practice?

 

I can say this because I believe it is true. I don't doubt your sincerity, I just don't see where Jesus taught the things Calvinists hold to.

 

You might start by reading the Gospel of John where Jesus Christ clearly teaches the Doctrines of Grace.

 

He does teach "doctrines of grace"...but He didn't teach what the reformed call the "Doctrines of Grace"

 

Is there any . . .ism today that man claims is from scripture that does not have its origin in man?

 

Yes, the Lord does. I pray the Lord would open your eyes to see what to others is so plain in the Scriptures.

 

He teaches what this Baptist calls Doctrines of Grace which means that only those chosen unto salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world will be saved.

 

AMEN!

 

The Lord does not give, bestow,confer grace to everyone -- only those of His choosing variously called the elect, His sheep,His beloved, the Church ad infinitum. He gives faith only to those very same people.The grace and faith the Lord bestows are intertwined.

 

The "Jews" have held a "dispensation doctrine" almost since the "beginning of time", their time anyway. :laugh:

I couldn't find the exact reference I was looking for, "seven dispensations", but here is a two thousand years dispensation.

Jewish Time
The traditional Jewish understanding of the flow of history is similar to that found in all great epic stories: The plot unfolds within a finite time frame and is a clearly delineated into a beginning, a middle and an end. In the broadest of strokes the Talmud, in tractate Sanhedrin 97a, lays out the basic themes and periods of history:

The world is to exist for six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era...

The six thousand years mentioned in the Talmud is not calculated from creation of the universe, but rather from the birth of Adam and mirrors the weekly cycle. Just as the Jewish week begins on Sunday and runs through Friday, so too is human history is to comprise a maximum(5) of six millennia of history as we know it.

At the end of this weekly cycle we enter the Sabbath, a day of spirituality and rest, so too after a maximum of 6,000 years of history humanity will enter the seventh millennium called "the World to Come," in Hebrew "Olam Haba." The World to Come is synonymous with the Garden of Eden and represents the culmination of the process of returning to God and perfecting the world (see Derech Hashem 1:3:4)

We see from this quote in the Talmud that these 6,000 years are further subdivided into three 2,000 years periods each with its own theme. The first 2,000 years, from Adam to the Tower of Babel is called desolation. The theme of this period: Humanity is spiritually desolate and has no relationship with God.

The second 2,000 year period, from Abraham to the completion of Mishnah c 240C.E, is called Torah. The theme of this period is Jewish national history in the Land of Israel and the flourishing of Torah (the Law).

The final 2,000 year period, from 240C.E. until the year 6,000 (the year 2,240 C.E.), is called Messiah. The theme of this final phase is humanity's return to God (led by the Jewish people). At the end of this period, but before the year 6,000, comes the Messianic Era which is the final preparatory stage before humanity enters the World to Come.(6)

I "suspect" most "Christians" ideas for dispensations originated from Jewish doctrine, if the truth was known.

 

So are you saying that since man has not changed and God has not changed therefore God must have dealt with man in seven different ways throughout history since the beginning of time?