A question about faith

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by stilllearning, Mar 19, 2013.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    This is a question that was asked in the translation forum, but with a little alteration it was made proper for this forum........

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    Before answering it myself, I thought that I open it up for everyone.
     
  2. Mexdeaf

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    Define "Bible". Then I can answer you.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

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    I cannot place a trusting faith in the Bible because the Bible is not God.

    It is His message to me - His Word and words. I believe the message and place my trusting faith in Him.
     
  4. 12strings

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    Well, since we're dealing with english, we should clarify what we are asking:

    "trusting Faith" is reduntant...it is like saying "Trusting trust." So, does God ever tell us to trust his Word?

    He tells us it is true (ps. 19), he tells us his words are our very lives (Deut), He says it is "more fully confirmed" than physically seeing Jesus (2 Pet. 1).

    It seems God does want us to trust and believe his word...

    So...What's the real question?

    If...the question is, do we place saving faith in his Word, or in Christ, then the answer would have to be Christ, because (hypothetically) a person could summarize the Gospel to a pagan, telling them about Christ while never mentioning that God sent this message in a book...and the pagan could believe, be saved, then die, never even knowing the bible existed...and still be a truly saved person.
     
  5. stilllearning

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    The Question.......
    What is, “trusting faith in the Bible” ?
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    ➀ Faith is.....
    (Believing in something that can’t be proved:)
    “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1)
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    The two sides of “faith”, is....
    (a)“Answered prayer” (the substance of things hoped for)
    (b)“Proof of God’s existence” (the evidence of things not seen)
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    ➁ Trusting is.......
    (Firm reliance on the integrity, ability, or character of a person or thing”)
    “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)

    People are unsaved, because they refuse to trust in the truth(the Bible)!
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    Trusting the Lord Jesus, is the same as trusting the Bible.......
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
    (John 1:1)

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    We are commanded to study the Bible, so that we will trust it more........
    “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15)
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    We are told to “trust the Bible”, because nothing else can be trusted........
    “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
    (Isaiah 40:8)

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    We are told to “trust the entire Bible”, because it’s all God’s Word.........
    V.46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
    V.47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
    (John 5:46-47)
    --------------------------------------------------

    I can share many more examples of God’s instructions in His Word to place faith in His Word(the Bible), but I realized that without FAITH, in the heart of the person reading these examples, they are meaningless.

    So, this is enough.
     
  6. righteousdude2

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    This is an EXCELLENT, Well thought out statement....

    .....thanks for saying what my heart and spirit feel. Although I believe in the infallible Word of God, and I see the message from the Biblical World View, I have to agree that you are wise in how you said this. THANKS!!!! :thumbs:
     
  7. Mexdeaf

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    Guess I will have to define "Bible" for myself- if you define "Bible" as the original writings inspired by God himself, yes we are to trust them.

    But if you define "Bible" as being one solitary translation of those inspired words, then NO we are not told to trust them.
     
  8. Oldtimer

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    So, we can't trust 9 of the 10 commandments repeated in the NT? Moses destroyed the "originals". There are other instances, in His word, where the "originals" were destroyed. Where are the "originals" supporting of any of the verses in the collection of scriptures in a book (multiple versions/editions) that we call the "Bible"?

    Next, please provide supporting scripture for "then NO we are not to trust them.", regardless of how an individual defines "Bible".

    God promised to preserve His word. Since the "originals" do not exist (at least have not been identified as such) we have nothing to trust, unless God kept His promise.

    Whether one supports one translation, specifically the King James Version, or several translations such as the NASB and NIV, each contain, at least some, if not all God's word, that He chose to preserve for future generations. How would you have reacted if I had said "then No we are not to trust them" for xyz reason for rejecting your preferred translation/version of our Lord's word?


    According to your premise, I am not to trust John 3:16, KJB version, because someone has taken a KJVO position. An extreme KJVO position, BTW. Many in my church use the KJB exclusively. Yet, they'd stand shoulder to shoulder in opposition to those who have said you must read the KJV, if you are a member of the body of Christ.

    Stilllearning,

    God keeps his promises. He promised that His word would be preserved.

    FWIW, this combination of scriptures are the watchwords, in my life, based on His promise.

    Proverbs 2:KJB
    3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
    4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
    5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
    6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.​
    And

    2 Timothy 2: KJB
    15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.​

    It doesn't matter if those scriptures appear in a collection called the "Bible" or pasted to a billboard standing alongside I-95.

    In closing, as this controversy continues to bring confusion and division within the Bapist church, I'm once again reminded of these words, as well.

    Amos 8: KJB
    11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
    12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.​
    Are we nearing the time when another of God's promises is fulfilled?
     
  9. 12strings

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    Faith & Trust are the same thing. There's no reason to say "trusting faith."

    But, we should have "trusting faith", or "faithful trust", or just faith, or trust, in the Bible...and insofar as that leads us to have faith in Christ, it is good and appropriate...but beware lest we be like the pharisees:

    You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.(John 5:39-40)
     
  10. Aaron

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    didn't read the thread. apologies if this was already touched upon:

    The question as phrased is, Do the Scriptures command us to believe and trust God's Word?

    I think the real question is, Does the Bible testify of itself? Yes. And it's a perfectly valid witness since it is the witness of the Holy Spirit.

    Viewed as the work of men inspired of God, if there were only one author, then it would be an invalid witness. But the Bible is the work of over 40 inspired men throughout millennia, the acts and circumstances of which validate each other.
     
  11. Mexdeaf

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    God has preserved His word just not in one solitary translation. Read what I said carefully.
     
  12. stilllearning

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    Just a reminder; This was not my question, but a question put to me.
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    I am the author of the quoted OP, so will ask it in the manner trying to get across!

    Does the Lord require us to have faith in the Bible in the same sense as in Jesus?

    I trust the bible is the word of god to me, but isn't that different than saying that I must place SAME faith in it as Jesus, that must have faith in a particular Bible version to same way as in jesus in order to be a real christian?

    I do see a distinct between beliveing the Bible, trusting its words, from putting faith in Christ!

    One saved me, the other did not!

    Fo IF BOTH are the same kind of faith required, wouldn't we be making idol of the book. and not the God of the Book?
     

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