A Question: Eternal Life, Kingdom of God, Saved?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TCGreek, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. In Mark 10:17-31 we have this narrative where "Eternal Life," "Kingdom of God" and "Saved" are used interchangeably.

    a. The Rich Young Ruler asks about "Eternal Life."

    b. Jesus responds with "to enter the Kingdom of God."

    c. The Disciples, out of astonishment, asked, "Then who can be saved?"

    2. Are we looking at multiple destinations in this narrative? Or are we looking at one destination conveyed through different descriptive terms like "Eternal Life," etc?
     
  2. KSeeker

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    This passage has to be dealing with one destination. But what is the destination?
    Eternal life and the kingdom of God are, in fact, used interchangably in this passage. The rich young ruler asks "what must i do to inherit eternal life?" Right off the bat we should be throwing up red flags because Ephesians 2:8 tells us that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works...(there's nothing we can DO to be saved--or "to inherit eternal life")
     
  3. James_Newman

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    Unless 'inherit eternal life' is not talking about being eternally saved.
     
  4. KSeeker

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    This passage cannot be referring to God's free gift of spiritual salvation. If it is, then many people will not be saved because they have great wealth.
    The rich young ruler was asking what he must do to inherit life in the age to come..that is the millenial reign of Christ. And it follows that the rest of the passage is also dealing with this coming age.
     
  5. npetreley

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    They need to change the name of this board from Baptist Board to Kingdom Salvation Board. Or, more accurate, "Another Gospel We're Accursed Board". ;)
     
  6. Cutter

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    That's soooo funny. You expect us to believe that? OK


    NOT!
     
  7. James_Newman

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    I find it funny that on a board with such diverse opinions, none of them cause as much contention as mine.

    Matthew 10:34-42
    34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
    36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
    37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
    39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
    40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
    41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
    42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.
     
  8. James_Newman

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    Then Jesus said we must keep the commandments in order to be saved, and BrotherBob is right.
     
  9. npetreley

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    Have you had this messiah complex long? Is it just you? Or shall we simply assume that anyone who is divisive must be messianic?
     
  10. James_Newman

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    I think that if you read Jesus' words and applied them to yourself, you'd be divisive too.
     
  11. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    Col 3:24 - knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.

    The inheritance is not the same thing as the gift of everlasting life. Just more proof that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of God's grace through faith apart from works are NOT the same thing.

    The rich young ruler was asking about the inheritance. That means he was saved. If he wasn't there was nothing that he could do to receive the inheritance.

    Christ told him that he lacked one thing and the one thing he lacked wasn't faith, but it was a "work." What must a I "DO" to inherit eternal life. Christ didn't say believe in my Substitutionary death and shed blood and you will receive this. Christ told him to "do" something. That's works folks. And that means contextually this is not talking about everlasting life, because that is not our inheritance. We don't have to wait on that. And it doesn't come via works.
     
  12. Hope of Glory

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    Colossians 3:24: Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

    Don't you know that "reward" only means "reward" when it fits preconceived ideas, and although inheritance is a family matter, it obviously isn't in this case, and works aren't really works when you're serving the Lord.

    (BTW, this statement was made tongue-in-cheek, obviously.)

    "Reward" means "reward". It's something you earn.

    "Inheritance" is a family matter.

    "Serving" is working.

    If this is talking about simply being born into the family, then being born into the family is compensation for working hard enough and long enough.
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    O, how we stumble over simplicity!

    1. The question is about eternal life. How many eternal life do we know of in Scripture?

    2. Jesus equates the "inherit eternal life" with "enter the kingdom of God." How many eschatological Kingdom of God do we know of?

    3. The disciples equate "inherit eternal life" with "saved." How many ways are there to be saved?

    4. Did "inherit eternal life", "enter the Kingdom", and "saved" all mean the same thing to the young man, Jesus and the disciples?

    5. What does a plain reading of this text reveals? How did the Jewish mind understand these matters?
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    I go with Yes it does all mean the same. If it does not, looks like God would of let His Son in on it.
     
  15. J. Jump

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    Yes these all meant the same thing. Unfortunately Christendom today doesn't understand what it meant to those folks and have misapplied the meaning to something quite different today.
     
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Then where have we gone wrong?

    2. What is being misapplied?
     
  17. KSeeker

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    I agree that most stumble over simplicity, especially over the simplicity of salvation by grace through faith.

    In baptist terminology, there are 3 ways to be saved...justification, sanctification, and glorification...that would be the salvation of the spirit, salvation of the soul, and salvation of the body 1Thess 5:23

    The Jewish people were already a saved nation. so their understanding of these matters would reflect their current state...They had no need of spirit salvation...Christ's message to the Jew was to Repent...change your mind...for the kingdom of heaven is at hand...Christ was offerring the kingdom of the heavens to the Jew when he first began his ministry.
     
  18. David Lamb

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    In baptist terminology, there are not "3 ways to be saved" as you put it. A sinner cannot be saved by being glorified, without being justified and sanctified, so how can glorification be a way to be saved? A sinner cannot be saved by being sanctified, without being first justified, so how can justification (by itself) be a way of salvation?

    You said, "The Jewish people were already a saved nation." So why did Jesus speak as He did to Jews in John 10.24-30?

    24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly."
    25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.
    26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
    27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
    29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
    30 "I and My Father are one."​


    And Paul writes in Romans 3.9-10 (parenthesis added):

    9 What then? Are we (Jews) better than they (Gentiles)? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
    10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one."​
     
  19. Hope of Glory

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    It's about aionian life. If you want to say "forever", then if you work hard enough, you're saved.

    The word for "eternal" is only used twice in the NT. This word aionian is used numerous times throughout, and means "age-lasting", but if you want to say that it also means "eternal", go ahead.

    I will take it literally, you will take it figuratively.

    But, I will continue to deny that works has anything to do with being born from above, to get born, stay born, prove you're born, or anything else.
     
  20. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Or, as I have heard it (but not my favorite way of describing it): Have been saved, are being saved, will be saved.

    When we're born from above, we're immediately (and forever) saved from the ultimate penalty for sin.

    He will save us now from the power of sin, if we let him.

    He will one day save us from the presence of sin.
     

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