a question for arminians

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by massdak, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    did God elect the jewish nation based on foreseen faith?
     
  2. Skandelon

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    Not all Arminians believe or teach that God "elects" people based upon a foreseen faith as you suggest.

    I could be wrong but I don't recall that Jacobs Arminius taught this either. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
     
  3. Ray Berrian

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    Massdak,

    I believe in the first four points of Arminian theology, but believe in eternal security.

    I think you have asked a very great question. It's a little like the question that my middle child, Todd--now age 30 asked me when I taught them in their Confirmation class. In fact he asked me several questions that I did not have the answer to . . .

    I think that God autocratically called out a people called the Israelites as noted in Genesis 17:1-2. I believe He wanted a covenant people who would love Almighty God, Jehovah.

    On the other hand, if they did not respond to Him and become a nation of His people, He in His omniscience would have eternally known this fact. But since they responded to His call a nation of His people were to become a reality.
     
  4. Debby in Philly

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    Ours is a personal God. So I do not believe He would elect (out of foreseen faith or otherwise) a group of any people.

    Israel's being the "chosen nation" is on the level of they are the ones through whom Christ came. Even they are "saved" individually, through faith.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Perhaps you could explain why being a personal God prohibits him from electing people.

    Also, please tell us what you think the passages of Scripture that tell us that God elects people really mean, if they don't mean that he elects people.
     
  6. massdak

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    my post is merely asking a question and not suggesting anything yet. but i am pretty sure that most of arminian doctrine does lean toward election being the result of forseen faith. i am curious as to how this is derived. how do they explain using the word foreknow to mean that it is God looking into the future to base His decision on electing them.
     
  7. Yelsew

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    God did not Elect the jews, He chose them by decree and refers to them as his own or his elect! It is a term of endearment. He has blessed them as a race of people often well beyond what he has done for any other race.

    There is no reason to think that any other race could measure up to "His elect", so from out of all nations He is adding to His elect through the process of belief unto complete faith in God. Those who have such faith are among God's elect, those who do not have such faith are not.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

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    So who did he elect then?? Clearly "elect" is a verb in some places that has God has its subject. Who is the object?
     
  9. Ransom

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    Yelsew said:

    God did not Elect the jews, He chose them by decree and refers to them as his own or his elect!

    In other words, God didn't elect the elect.

    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Yelsew

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    God did not Elect the jews, He chose them by decree and refers to them as his own or his elect!

    Elect is a term of distinction only! It is not a method!
     
  11. massdak

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    ok yelsew but can you answer this with a yes or no did God Choose the jews as the elect because of their foreseen faith?
     
  12. Yelsew

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    ok yelsew but can you answer this with a yes or no did God Choose the jews as the elect because of their foreseen faith? </font>[/QUOTE]NO! I don't believe He did, but then I have never heard of an athiest jew!
     
  13. massdak

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    ok yelsew but can you answer this with a yes or no did God Choose the jews as the elect because of their foreseen faith? </font>[/QUOTE]NO! I don't believe He did, but then I have never heard of an athiest jew! </font>[/QUOTE]thats interesting. thank you for your direct answer that is rare for arminians. can we proceed with another yes or no answer?

    do you believe that God chose gentile Christians as the elect because of foreseen faith?
     
  14. Yelsew

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    ok yelsew but can you answer this with a yes or no did God Choose the jews as the elect because of their foreseen faith? </font>[/QUOTE]NO! I don't believe He did, but then I have never heard of an athiest jew! </font>[/QUOTE]thats interesting. thank you for your direct answer that is rare for arminians. can we proceed with another yes or no answer?

    do you believe that God chose gentile Christians as the elect because of foreseen faith?
    </font>[/QUOTE]NO!
     
  15. russell55

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    Huh? Elect is a verb as well as a noun.

    What does scripture mean when it says God elects ?
     
  16. Yelsew

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    Huh? Elect is a verb as well as a noun.

    What does scripture mean when it says God elects ?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Quote the scripture where God says that....or at least give me the reference.
     
  17. russell55

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    Most times when it says God chose or God has chosen it is translating the verb form of the word "elect". So, for instance, Ephesians 1:4 could be rightly translated " as He elected us in Him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and unblemished before him."

    To elect and to chose mean exactly the same thing--at least biblically. You can get out your concordance and look this up.....
     
  18. Yelsew

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    A supposition? Russell55
     
  19. russell55

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    Nope. Look it up in the Greek. Or if you can't read greek, look it up in a concordance or a bible dictionary like vines or something. Or go to to Blueletterbible.
     
  20. massdak

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    Nope. Look it up in the Greek. Or if you can't read greek, look it up in a concordance or a bible dictionary like vines or something. Or go to to Blueletterbible. </font>[/QUOTE]i use the blue letter bible also
    does 55 mean your age, or year born ?
     

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