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A question for Calvinists

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Steven2006, Jul 17, 2007.

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  1. christianyouth

    christianyouth New Member

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    Webdog, if men are only accountable if they hear about Christ, if they either accept or reject, why would we evangelize? Wouldn't that be increasing their chance of going to hell? Why not allow the ignorant heathen in Africa to remain in darkness, instead of presenting him with the Gospel, which then supposibly would give him a 50/50 chance of going to hell.
     
    #21 christianyouth, Jul 17, 2007
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    All men receive some measure of truth...Christ is The Light that lighteth all men. It's what they do with the Truth presented that they are held accountable for.
     
    #22 webdog, Jul 17, 2007
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Did Christ taste death for ALL men, or is Scripture wrong?
     
    #23 webdog, Jul 17, 2007
  4. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Is this scripture wrong?

     
    #24 npetreley, Jul 17, 2007
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Scripture is never wrong. "unrighteous" is the qualifier for the following.
     
    #25 webdog, Jul 17, 2007
  6. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    No not at all, and I believe I said that earlier. It will be up to them to trust in Jesus as their savior. But I do believe that a parents influence can help raise them to believe the truths of the Bible, therefore increasing the likelihood that that would happen. But that is my question, if I didn't believe that I think it would scarier raising children. Not having any influence at all would make me think hard before having children.

    I guess that was my question, has nobody ever thought of this ever before having children? I really believe I would have.
     
    #26 Steven2006, Jul 17, 2007
  7. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    True, there is no guarantee either way, But I feel that I can have an influence with how my children are raised. But I am not trying to convince anyone of this. My real question is if you don't feel you have any influence does it not give you any pause before having children, it would me.


    Well, I guess I am a hybrid :laugh: I do believe God uses the Holy Spirit to draw us to Him. But I also believe people can choose to ignore that.
     
    #27 Steven2006, Jul 17, 2007
  8. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    I would be real interested in your answer to my previous question on this.

    "Since you believe that more children that grow up in a Christian home do get saved, how do you explain that. With free will the reason is obvious, but if predestined, then why? Are the children of non Christians paying for their parents sins? Or is it just that children of Christians are more favored in Gods eyes? "



    Also thank you for the links to those sermons, I will try and listen to them when I have the time.
     
    #28 Steven2006, Jul 17, 2007
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    So are they perishing because they're wicked, or because they rejected Christ? And you still haven't answered my question - if they never hear of Christ and never have a chance to reject Him, do the not perish?
     
    #29 npetreley, Jul 17, 2007
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I believe everyone is presented with some truth (Rom. 1)...everyone has the opportunity to accept or reject.
     
    #30 webdog, Jul 17, 2007
  11. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Some truth = knowledge about Jesus and the offer of salvation? Is that what you're saying?

    And do they perish because of their sin, or because they rejected Christ?
     
    #31 npetreley, Jul 17, 2007
  12. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    People perish for failure to believe in Christ. It is appointed for man ONCE to die.

    Every man is given the Truth. He is the Light that lighteth ALL men. Do with that what you want.
     
    #32 webdog, Jul 17, 2007
  13. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Then how do you interpret this scripture (haven't we been here before?)... It doesn't say they will not inherit the kingdom of God because they didn't believe in Christ. It says the reason they do not inherit the kingdom of God is because they are fornicators, etc. If their sins were forgiven, then why do the same sins keep them out of the kingdom?

    Does Lazarus know that? Dorcas? Any of dozens of others?

    I don't know what to do with it. Are you saying that everyone knows Jesus and has a chance to accept or reject Him?
     
    #33 npetreley, Jul 17, 2007
  14. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    As a former Calvinist, I will say that my experience with Calvinism has allowed me to accept the justice of the condemnation of the lost person who dies without hearing of Christ.

    All of us are guilty, and none of us have any right whatsoever to the gospel. If an old man dies in Asia without hearing the gospel, he will go to hell, as is just, as undesirable as it may be.

    As an aside: I do not reject Calvinism because I find it repugnant, unfair, or anything of the sort. The scriptures, IMO, just seem to lean more toward an Arminian theology. Many godly believers disagree. If Calvinism is true, I will not be offended.
     
    #34 StefanM, Jul 18, 2007
  15. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    If a person has a fatal disease and are offered a medicine that would save them, but they refuse to drink it. Why did they then die? Because of the disease, or because of not taking the medicine?


    People are sent to hell because of their sins. They deserve punishment. However if they reject Christ, the reason that it shall happen to them is because of their unbelief. Basically if this makes sense. The cause of hell is sin, but the reason that it happens to them is unbelief.
     
    #35 Steven2006, Jul 18, 2007
  16. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Whether or not your view is correct, it is not aligned with the one I'm challenging. Well, it sure doesn't SEEM to align with it - I'm having a hard time getting webdog to be clear about what he believes, so I can't be sure.

    It SOUNDS like he's saying all sin of all people (except that of unbelief) has been forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ. The only reason anyone perishes is because they reject Him. Sin is no longer the cause. That's not how I see it, and it doesn't look like that's how you see it, either.
     
    #36 npetreley, Jul 18, 2007
  17. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    I think you and I are on the same page on this issue. I was just trying to interject what webdog may have been trying to say.
     
    #37 Steven2006, Jul 18, 2007
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