A question for calvinists

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rubato 1, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1
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    Why pray? If God has already decided it all, and everything will go as it will go, whay did God command us to pray?
     
  2. Linda64

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    That is an EXCELLENT question, Rubato!:godisgood:
     
  3. webdog

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    Let me flip through my "how to answer calvinism guide"....

    Oh, here it is...

    "because we are commanded to".
     
  4. annsni

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    You stole the words right out of my mouth. :D :thumbs:
     
  5. Outsider

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    Good one:thumbs:
    Then again, why do arminians pray? All they have to do is use their ultimate free will and decide it for themselves...
     
  6. The Archangel

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    Great Question.

    Certainly webdog is right (although his comment was sarcastic in nature and not intended to be a serious answer).

    Certainly we are commanded to pray (just as we are commanded to "Make Disciples" as part of the Great Commission).

    Because I don't think I could explain it any better, here are two articles by John Piper which discuss this question in detail (I posted the links because the copyright info requests I do so, rather than posting the entirety of the articles here).

    http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource.../1976/1475_The_Sovereignty_of_God_and_Prayer/

    http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1996/1505_Prayer_and_Predestination/

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  7. webdog

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    Just because I was being sarcastic doesn't mean I wasn't serious. I was only an "L" from being a full blown TULIPer at one point in time. My answer was what I would say. :)
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    Why preach? Why witness? Why pray?

    If God has chosen certain to be saved or not saved and we have no choice, why do any of the above at all?

    They have no bearing on one being saved according to the Calvinist's doctrine.

    Yet, God's Word declares one cannot be saved without the hearing of the Word.

    Wait! there seems to be contradiction between God's Word and the Calvinistic doctrine.

    Guess which one is right?
     
  9. webdog

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    Arminians pray because they want God to be calvinistic in certain circumstances :)
     
  10. Outsider

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    I think if we all look back at our last prayer, we will find that we all pray like Calvinists.
    I am not a full blown 5 pointer, but I don't dismiss it either.
    I must also say the same thing about the Arminians view.

    But in prayer, I am a Calvinist. I must admit!
     
  11. Rubato 1

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    Why would God command us to pray? An exercise in futility? Everything is seen already. The old line 'because we are commanded to' holds no water, because a command carries with it the implication that you have a choice ot obey or not. If God already knows, then what is he doing, playing a great cosmic game because He is bored? Why would prayer change anything? Is God really commanding us to do something that has no real purpose?
     
  12. webdog

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    In prayer we all are to an extent. At some point even the full blown arminian who believes man doesn't need God in the least to reach out to man first begs God to control circumstances.

    I'm neither a calvinist nor arminian, btw.
     
  13. webdog

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    One of those things where we finite beings bound by time will never understand how an infinite God deals with His creation within and outside the scope of time.
     
  14. Outsider

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    Amen brother!
    Just curious, do you believe God is all knowing. That He knows the end from the beginning and everything in between? Do you think He knows who will and who won't? Do you believe He knows what you are going to pray for before you do?
     
  15. Outsider

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    Why is it that we all admit this when it comes to prayer but not in the rest of our life? Doesn't this seem strange?
     
  16. TCGreek

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    Rubato,

    Do you believe God is still trying to decide how it will all end?

    Let's say I come to you and ask you to pray for me, because I have a severe back pain, Why would you pray for me?

    Do you believe God will answer your prayer?

    Does God have to wait for you to tell him about my back pain, to know that I have a back pain?

    Let's say that you believe that God is all-knowing, Why then would you pray to God?
     
  17. webdog

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    I think part of it is not understanding that God's will is not always 100% decretive nor 100% permissive.
     
  18. annsni

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    God commands us to pray to help us to grow in faith and to glorify God. Hey - I was going to make dinner tonight anyway but I still asked my daughter to help me. Why? Because I wanted to work with her, teach her and spend time with her. Why would God be any different?
     
  19. Amy.G

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    Prayer has always been a mystery to me. God is sovereign and what does it matter what I pray?

    My answer is that when we pray we are to ask for God's will regardless of what we want, which helps us to conform to His will instead of asking Him to conform to ours.
    When our prayers are answered it glorifies God.

    When they are not answered or the answer is no, it makes us realize that He is God and we're not and we do not always know what is best for us. Again, He is glorified.

    When we pray, we are part of a relationship with God because we are communicating with one another.

    Our prayers are another reminder to us of how dependent we are on our Heavenly Father.

    So, praying helps us to grow spiritually, be conformed to the image of Christ and develops dependance and trust in God.
     
  20. webdog

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    the ladies have given the best answers! :thumbs:
     

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