A Question For Non-Lordship Proponents

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by IronWill, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. IronWill

    IronWill
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    I attended a Bible college that taught much of what non-Lordshippers teach. One of the things they taught in evangelism classes was that if we were witnessing to somebody, and they started talking about sin that they would have to give up if they became a Christian, that we were to tell them that they didn't have to change anything as a Christian. In fact, we were encouraged to tell them that they would never have to set foot inside a church, crack open a Bible, or anything after Salvation. All they had to do was pray the prayer. All they had to do was "ask Jesus to save them and really mean it."

    Now the other day, I was witnessing to a young man about my age that I work with. I was asking him questions concerning religion, and he got uncomfortable and defensive after a few minutes of talking. Finally he said "I can't become a Christian." I inquired of him "why not?" He responded saying "If I become a Christian, then I can't go out and get drunk every weekend. I can't sleep with my girlfriend, I can't smoke my cigarettes, I can't do any of the stuff that I like to do. I LIKE MY SIN TOO MUCH TO GET SAVED." He realized, as an unregenerate man, that salvation meant obedience to Christ, and leaving his sin behind. And he didn't like that. Several times I've been witnessing to people, and they've asked questions like "If I get saved, do I need to go to church? Do I need to stop getting drunk? Do I need to stop sleeping around?"

    If you were in a situation like I described above, how would you respond to that young man? How would you respond to somebody who asked if they would have to give something up as a result of Salvation? How would you advise someone who didn't want to get saved because it would mean leaving their sin behind?
     
  2. webdog

    webdog
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    I would have responded that I would be praying for him...and moved on. His heart is not in a place that will accept the Gospel.
     
  3. IronWill

    IronWill
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    How would you address the question of having to give up sin after salvation? If somebody you were witnessing to said "If I get saved, won't I have to stop sleeping with my girlfriend?" how would you respond? How would you give an answer?
     
  4. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
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    Wow... I'm shocked that a seminary actually taught what you described. However, I suppose I shouldn't be shocked anymore.
     
  5. StefanM

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    That "professor" must have conveniently forgotten the Pauline corpus.
     
  6. StefanM

    StefanM
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    Yes, you will. Christ died not only to save us from eternal punishment but to save us from the present reality of sin. If you are clinging to sin, you are not clinging to Jesus.
     
  7. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    It seems to me that when any of us got saved, we were powerless to give up sin. All we knew was that we needed God. I think that is the key to salvation. Not whether or not I must give up something, but rather, when the heart is ready to received Christ, it won't care what it has to give up. When we realize that we have sinned against God and fall under His wrath, we will run to Him for salvation. It is only when He indwells us that we can overcome sin or even have the desire to.

    I think Webdog said it, the man is not ready to accept the gospel. Right now, the good news doesn't appeal to him because he hasn't realized the bad news.
     
  8. Marcia

    Marcia
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    This is how I respond to questions like that:
    "If you understand your need for a Savior, you will decide on your own not to sleep with your girlfriend either when you trust Christ or shortly thereafter. This is because once you trust in Christ, you are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who will convict of you of the things God finds offensive. You will be a new creature and have the desire to please God."

    Just a thought, not necessarily for you:
    I don't think we need another "2 camps" a la Calvinist and non-Calvinist. It looks like we are now doing "Lordship" vs. whatever is the opposite. I protest that strongly - I am not in either one - we are saved and through the process of sanctification, we take on the desire to serve the Lord. We don't have to know all that the moment we are saved. I think at the moment of salvation, a person wants Jesus as Savior and at the same time, is rejecting their old ways. We should not tell people before they are saved they have to give up their sin; it sounds like a works salvation.
     
  9. StefanM

    StefanM
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    While I understand your point, the Bible indicates no reticence on the part of Jesus or the apostles in calling everyone to repentance.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I am not saying we should not repent - we can also repent after being saved, right?

    I'm saying I don't think that saying to an unbeliever "You have to give up sin in order to be saved" is biblical. Is that how one is saved? We give up something and then God saves us?
     
  11. StefanM

    StefanM
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    We are saved by grace through faith. I contend that an individual who has no intention of turning from his sins is not an individual with biblical, saving faith.

    I don't think we can separate repentance from true faith. IMO, a faith without repentance is a dead faith.

    What other alternative do we have? If we declare, "No, you don't have to stop sleeping with your girlfriend," we are promoting sin contrary to the gospel. If we say "Yes," we might have a slight misunderstanding. I'd much rather have the misunderstanding.
     
  12. nunatak

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    IMO, the only real alternative we have is to preach the gospel, to preach Christ. Since salvation is completely a work of God, since man can't understand the Scripture unless God opens his mind, and since God has chosen to begin this work of salvation with the preaching of the gospel, then what other choice do we have?
     
  13. IronWill

    IronWill
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    Well, neither do I believe that they have to give up their sin for salvation. But when one comes to Christ, you can't simply accept him as Savior but reject him as Lord of your life. You can't say "Okay Jesus, you're gonna be my get out of hell free card, but I don't want to obey you or your commands." When one truly comes to Christ, there is an understanding that following Christ requires obedience to Him. Nobody can say "Okay, I'm going to accept you as Savior, but I still want to be able to sleep with my boyfriend/girlfriend." If one is trying to come to Christ with the intention of maintaining a sinful lifestyle afterwards, can we really say that this person is saved?
     
  14. StefanM

    StefanM
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    The question assumes the Christian is sharing the gospel.

    Either Jesus expects us to stop fornicating or he doesn't.
     
  15. nunatak

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    Assuming the gospel is our first mistake.
     
  16. StefanM

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    What would you say if someone asked you this?

    "If I become a Christian, do I have to stop sleeping with my girlfriend?"
     
  17. nunatak

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    You aren't afraid to ask the hard questions are you, lol.:laugh:

    Seriously, idk. When God chose me, he chose a weak, foolish vessel.

    So, all I know is Christ. I don't have any other answers.

    I can only preach Christ.
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
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    I was asked this question when I was a new Christian. The Lord had caused me to be born again and I became a new creation. My desires and affections changed. I began to love righteousness and hate sin. This was accompanied by outward actions my friends saw. They saw me stop listening to evil music, stop using drugs, stop using profanity, et.

    One girl began to attend church with me. After a little while she began to ask, "Do I have to give up such and such to follow Jesus?"

    Now, I was a new Christian but it wasn't hard to discern that this girl was struggling with the cost of following Jesus and her own desires and sin. It so happened that I had been reading the Gospels and said to her...

    "You need to give your life to Jesus. If anything is in the way of following Jesus, get rid of it." And I was reading the following:

    26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

    27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

    28For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

    29Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,

    30Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.

    31Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?

    32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.

    33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

    Brethren, we are commanded to make disciples. Let us not preach things to people that Jesus did not preach and teach. Some of you may be wondering what happened to the girl.

    She went away sad, not much unlike the rich man who needed to sell all that he had.
     
  19. Marcia

    Marcia
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    But is this decision made before faith in Christ or at the same time? I think it comes at the same time and later, as we grow in sanctification.

    I gave my answer to this question in a previous post that I think is biblical. It's not a question of "you must give x up" but "when you know Jesus, you will want to give x up."
     
  20. Marcia

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    Did you read the answer I wrote out to this question, as I would say it? (And as I've said it to people).

    Where and when did I say I agree with the "Jesus you will be get out of hell free card but I don't want to obey...etc."???????

    You are making a false dichotomy. I do not agree with this statement nor do I agree with "You must give up your sin." See my previous posts and the one I wrote out the answer on.

    I don't know anyone who says it's okay to trust Christ and still hope have a sinful lifestyle. This is a straw man.
     

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