A Question of Sots

Just for starters... here is the way God describes someone who is drunk...

Job 12:25 They grope in the dark without light, and
he maketh them to stagger like [a] drunken [man].

Psalms 107:27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits' end.

Isaiah 19:14 The LORD hath mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: and they have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof, as a drunken [man] staggereth in his vomit.

Isaiah 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Jeremiah 23:9 Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.

Jeremiah 25:27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.

Jeremiah 48:26 Make ye him drunken: for he magnified [himself] against the LORD: Moab also shall wallow in his vomit, and he also shall be in derision.

Jeremiah 51:39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.

Lamentations 4:21 Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom, that dwellest in the land of Uz; the cup also shall pass through unto thee: thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked.

Acts 2:11-15 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (12) And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? (13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. (14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (15) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.

Genesis 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

1 Samuel 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

1 Samuel 25:36 And Abigail came to Nabal; and, behold, he held a feast in his house, like the feast of a king; and Nabal's heart [was] merry within him, for he [was] very drunken: wherefore she told him nothing, less or more, until the morning light.

 

So God describes someone who is drunk with the following Characteristics:

Staggering,
Shaking
Naked (loss of inhibitions)
Sleeping (as in passed out)
Sleeping the Perpetual sleep (death)
Vomiting
Talking to yourself
Talking but no one can understand (slurred speach)
Excited (as the disciples were on the day of pentecost)
Happy to the point of not caring...

I will highlight these in the above post...

And I thought it was old wine a person got drunk with, not new wine... but the passage in Acts says "new wine"

 

Those Characteristics describe a drunk man from the Word of God...

I will choose to use God's description over man's.

So if you drink enough to make you do the above, you have drank too much...

Also if you eat enough to make you do the above, you have eaten too much...

That pretty well settles it..
God has already said what Drunkenness looks like, let's agree with Him.

 

25 onces in 3 hours seems like a LOT to me, and I'm heavy enough that I would need more to get to the same state.

Regardless, I don't think there's any way to establish a definitive standard for this, so your 0.04-0.06 percent is just some arbitrary statistic. Some people can "drink others under the table", meaning they can consume a LOT more alcohol than other people (without respect to whether they are fatter or thinner) and still not get drunk. So while 25 ounces seems like a lot to me, I'm sure there's another person out there who could chug that in one sitting and still be fine.

 

When I was drinking It would take about that much... Aaron figured it about right... And I weigh more than 180. But back then I weighed about 210.


I never could hold my alcohol...
That is why I won't touch the stuff now..
There is too much potential for me to fall.

 

Doesn't make a difference. If 1 drink makes you 1/5 drunk, that same reasoning must apply to food. You don't have to be arrested for something to be a sin.

 

I ALREADY said in post #2 it is different for everybody. It varies. Like gluttony, I can eat 3 cheeseburgers and not be a glutton...but if my wife did, she would.

 

Fascinating thread. Thanks for starting it, Aaron.

I'm with those who state that 1) it is highly personal in the sense that everyone's body is a little different and 2) I prefer the Biblical definitions although our legal ones are important where enforcing public safety is concerned.

I'm quite sensitive to alcohol. I get sick from too much, not drunk per se. I found that out in college and in my early twenties. Don't care to ever, ever repeat the experience! But, as a result, I know that what other women my height and weight could tolerate quite easily, I can't. There's a body chemistry involved that has nothing to do with percentages.

However yes, I do have a bit of wine sometimes. I have sips of it with a good steak dinner. Very slowly, as it is not a gulping sort of a drink the way water is! If, at any point, I feel even slightly flushed, that's it. Stop. Actually, the warmth usually hits my legs first, as strange as that may seem, so it's a very early warning signal that enough is enough.

I have been PRESCRIBED wine twice in my life now by medical doctors. I also know that there are times when a certain medication absolutely forbids it. What I am trying to say is that one can drink a bit of wine and there is no sin at all involved.

However, as the Bible states, if you feel it is a sin, then for you it would be, for you would be violating the conscience God has given you. That goes for any behavior!

Now, back to the original question, Aaron. Have you ever had the flu so badly you are stumbling off the walls on the way to the bathroom to throw up? That's drunkenness. Exactly the same effect can be had from too much alcohol for your system. THAT's drunk. When you achieve that effect, or similar, time after time, you are a drunkard.

Have you ever been so tired that the slightest provocation makes you want to take a swing and knock the other guy out? And you're so tired you swing....and miss? When alcohol has that effect, you are drunk.

When you use alcohol to numb your responses to the world around you, over and over again, you are in major trouble. Now, you can be an alcoholic and not be drunk every time you drink, or maybe almost never. So there is a difference there, too. Dependance is alcoholism. Drunkenness is loss of control. To be 'high' means you feel the effects but you aren't falling over your own feet, throwing up, or swinging at people, verbally or physically.

And the line separating these things can vary from person to person. Body chemistry, sex, weight, medications, age -- many variables. The law can only try to approximate what affects the average person in the average way.

 

In the long run, Aaron, it's absolutely subjective. I may look at someone and think they are OK and someone closer to him or her might say, "No, he/she is actually drunk." Or the other way around. You've been answered a lot of times already.

What I did was simply give you examples of behavior you might have experienced yourself which, when associated with alcohol, indicate drunkenness. I guess you missed the point.

Let me turn this around with another kind of intoxication. At what point in a Christian's life does his or her behavior indicate they are 'drunk with the Spirit'?

Do you see the problem? The condition is inside and the behavior is outside and sometimes there is a discrepancy.

 

There is no such thing as "drunk in the Spirit"

 

Aren't we to be "filled with the Spirit"?

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

 

Those of us who do not drink have a perfect ability to discern

 

I'm sorry, Aaron, but loss of control with alcohol comes in stages, not all at once. An example that might help a non-drinker to understand is something like Multiple Sclerosis. MS doesn't disable in a minute. It normally creeps up worse and worse through the years. Losing control due to alcohol also creeps up, which is why many who are pretty intoxicated do not understand how out of it they really are. To my mind, the 'ladies' drinks' which combine fruit juices with rum or another hard liquor are the most dangerous. They can taste a lot like a tangy fruit juice and thus the effects, because the alcohol in them is more concentrated than wines but the taste is so deceptive, can be quickly overwhelming.

But unless you are chugging wine (ych), there is PLENTY of warning from your body as to whether you are taking in too much.