A question on Ellen G White and the Trinity

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ben W, Apr 25, 2006.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    I have noticed a few quotes from Ellen G White from time to time when we have discussion on the SDA. What I am wondering is what it was that Ellen G White taught or believed in relation to the Trinity?

    Is it recorded in any of her works that she affirms the Trinity in the same manner that Baptists do?

    This post is not in any way an attack on the SDA, I am looking to see what the primary documents say in relation to Ellen G White and the Trinity. :cool:
     
  2. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter
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    I believe the only prominent figure associated with the Adventist Movement who denied the Trinity was Charles Taze Russel, founder of the Watchtower Tract Society. But I may be wrong, although I do not consider White to be a prophetess in the sense which she is so honored by her followers.
     
  3. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Ellen White And The Trinity
    Ellen G. White

    Three Persons In The Godhead
    Bible Teacher 1/03/1906
    "There are Three Living Persons in the heavenly TRIO."
    Special Testimonies to SDA's
    "There are Three Living Persons of the heavenly TRIO. In the name of these Three Powers--the Father, the
    Son, and the Holy Ghost--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will
    cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life of Christ."
    Desire Of Ages 671
    "In describing to His disciples the work of the Holy Spirit, Jesus sought to inspire them with the joy and
    hope that inspired His own heart. Sin could be resisted and overcome through the mighty agency of the
    Third Person of the Godhead."
    Southern Watchman 28/11/1905
    "He determined to give His representative (The Divine Spirit) the Third Person of the Godhead"
    Review And Herald 19/05/1904
    "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead
    (The Spirit), who would come in no modified energy, but in the fullness of Divine power."
    Review And Herald 19/11/1908
    "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead
    (The Holy Spirit), who would come in no modified energy, but in the fullness of Divine power."
    Signs Times 1/12/1989
    "He determined to give His representative, the Third Person of The Godhead."
    Signs Times 19/06/1901
    "Then cooperate with the Three Great Powers of Heaven who are working in your behalf."
    Signs Times 12/02/1902
    "As you openly renounce sin and Satan, the Three Great Powers of Heaven pledged themselves to help you
    to overcome."
    Signs Times 11/03/1903
    "The Three Great Powers of Heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
    Signs Times 10/05/1905
    "Keep yourselves where the Three Great Powers of Heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit can be
    your efficiency."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 2
    Signs Times 16/08/1905
    "The Three Highest Powers in the Universe, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit can be your
    efficiency."
    "The Three Great Powers of Heaven pledge themselves to furnish the Christian with all the assurance he
    requires."
    Signs Times 10/05/1910
    "They are to keep themselves where the Three Great Powers of Heaven,
    the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit can be their efficiency."
    Note Book Leaflets
    "We will avail ourselves of the help of the Three Great Powers of Heaven."
    Special Testimonies To Ministers And Workers
    "Evil had been accumulating for centuries, and could only be restrained and resisted by the mighty power
    of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead."
    "The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the Third Person of the
    Godhead, the Holy Spirit."
    8 Testimonies 254
    "In the great closing work we shall meet with perplexities that we know not how to deal with; but let us not
    forget that the Three Great Powers of Heaven are working."
    Australasian Conference Record 7/10/1907
    "The Three Powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are pledged to be their strength and
    their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus."
    Bible Training School 1/03/1906
    "There are Three Living Persons in the Heavenly TRIO. In the name of these Three Powers, -- the Father,
    the Son, and the Holy Ghost, those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized."
    General Conference Bulletin 4/04/1901
    "We are baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these Three Great, Infinite
    Powers are unitedly pledged to work in our behalf if we will cooperate with them."
    General Conference Bulletin 14/04/1901
    "As at our baptism we pledged ourselves to Him, and received the ordinance in the name of the Father, and
    of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, these Three Great Powers of Heaven pledged themselves to work on our
    behalf."
    Pacific Union Recorder 2/07/1908
    "The presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Three Highest Powers in the Universe and
    those in whose name the believer is baptized, is pledged to be with every believing soul."
    Southern Watchman 23/02/1904
    "Keep yourselves where the Three Great Powers of Heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be
    your efficiency."
    Southern Watchman 15/12/1908
    "In the presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Three Highest Powers in the Universe, is
    pledged to be with every striving soul."
    Review And Herald 5/05/1903
    "In the great closing work we shall meet with perils that we know not how to deal with; but let us not forget
    that the Three Great Powers of heaven are working."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 3
    Review And Herald 26/05/1904
    "Let us not forget our baptismal vow. In the presence of the Three Highest Powers Of Heaven, the Father,
    the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we have pledged ourselves to do the will of Him who, over the rent sepulcher
    of Joseph, declared 'I am the resurrection and the life.'"
    Review And Herald 15/06/1905
    "And the Three Great Powers of Heaven pledged themselves to cooperate with you in your efforts to live
    the new life in Christ."
    Review And Herald 22/06/1905
    "The help of the Three Great Powers (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) is placed at your disposal."
    Review And Herald 18/07/1907
    "The Three Powers of The Godhead have pledged their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind
    when He gave to the world the unspeakable gift of His Son."
    Review And Herald 12/08/1909
    "The Three Highest Powers in the Universe are pledged to labor with those who will seek to save the lost."
    6 Testimonies 91
    He has made this a positive condition with which all must comply who wish to be acknowledged as under
    the authority of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those who are baptized in the Threefold Name of
    the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they
    have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly
    King.
    6 Testimonies 98
    In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit we are buried in the likeness of Christ's death and
    raised in the likeness of His resurrection, and we are to live a new life. Our life is to be bound up with the
    life of Christ. Henceforth the believer is to bear in mind that he is dedicated to God, to Christ, and to the
    Holy Spirit.
    6 Testimonies 99
    The fact that you have been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is an assurance
    that, if you will claim Their help, these Powers will help you in every emergency.
    8 Testimonies 194
    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are seeking and longing for channels through which to
    communicate to the world the divine principles of truth.
    Acts Apostles 28
    They were to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
    Austalasian Union Conference Record 1/04/1901
    The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave
    themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.
    Austalasian Union Conference Record /06/1904
    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have pledged themselves to aid you in your unselfish efforts to
    turn men from unrighteousness to righteousness, from darkness to the light of truth.
    Austalasian Conference Record 7/10/1907
    The Three Powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and
    their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus.
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 4
    Needs Of The Cause In Australia 14/07/1903
    The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave
    themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.
    Pacific Union Recorder 24/11/1904
    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have pledged themselves to aid you in your unselfish efforts to
    turn men from darkness to light.
    Pacific Union Recorder 5/01/1905
    The salvation of human beings is a vast enterprise, that calls into action Every Attribute of the Divine
    Nature. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have pledged themselves to make God's children more
    than conquerors through Him that loved them.
    Review And Herald 7/01/1902
    Christ came to this world and stood before men with the hoarded love of eternity. The whole ocean of
    divine love was flowing forth from its great center. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were working
    in behalf of man.
    Review And Herald 27/01/1903
    The salvation of human beings is a vast enterprise, that calls into action Every Attribute of the Divine
    Nature. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have pledged themselves to make God's children more
    than conquerors through him that has loved them.
    Review And Herald 5/05/1903
    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have pledged themselves to aid you in your unselfish efforts to
    turn men from unrighteousness to righteousness, from darkness to the light of truth.
    Review And Herald 18/02/1904
    When the Christian takes his baptismal vow, Divine help is pledged to him. The Father, the Son, and the
    Holy Spirit stand ready to work in his behalf.
    Review And Herald 17/05/1906
    The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are pledged to co-operate with sanctified human instrumentalities.
    Review And Herald 2/05/1912
    The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave
    themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.
    Christ Is The Creator
    1 Selected Messages 301
    "All created beings are the recipients of the life of the Son of God,
    the source of All Life. He is the spring, the fountain of life."
    Desire Of Ages 20
    "It was Christ that spread the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth."
    "His strength setteth fast the mountains." Psalm 65:6
    "The sea is His, and He made it." Psalm 95:5
    Desire Of Ages 288
    "Since He made all things, He made the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12."
    "He who created all things in heaven and on earth."
    6 Testimonies 342
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 5
    "Abraham had ministered not only to heavenly angels, but to their Glorious Commander, his Creator,
    Redeemer, and King."
    1 Selected Messages 247
    "The Word existed as the Eternal Son of God."
    "From everlasting He was the mediator of the covenant."
    "The Word was with God and the Word was God."
    "The world was made by Him," and without Him was not anything made that was made"(John 1:3). If
    Christ Made All Things He existed before all things. Christ was God essentially and in the highest sense.
    He was with God from eternity, God Over All, blessed forever more."
    "The Divine Son of God Existed From Eternity, as a distinct person yet one with the Father"
    "He was the surpassing glory of heaven."
    1 Selected Messages 248
    "From everlasting to everlasting Thou art God" Psalm 90:2
    "From everlasting." Micah 5:1,2
    Christ Created The Earth
    Christ Object Lessons 18
    "The things of nature which His own hands had made."
    Fundamentals Of Education 400
    "The Creator of the world."
    "The Eternal Word."
    Desire Of Ages 649
    "One equal with God by creating the world."
    Great Controversy 651
    "He whose power created and upheld unumbered worlds through the vast realms of space, the Beloved
    God."
    Messages Young People 300
    "The Savior was in a world that He Himself had created."
    1 Selected Messages 247
    "The world was made by Him."
    Story Of Redemption 13, 14
    "The Son should be equal with the Father Himself."
    "The Son was to work with the Father in the anticipated creation of the earth."
    2 Testimonies 209
    "Jesus had united with the Father in making the world."
    6 Testimonies 182
    "Christ who created the world and all the things that are therein."
    Testimonies To Ministers 177
    "The world was His, He made it."
    Steps To Christ 88
    "Without Him was not anything made that was made."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 6
    Christ Created The Planets
    Desire Of Ages 87, 88
    "The Creator of the worlds."
    Desire Of Ages 288
    "He who created all things in heaven and in the earth."
    Christ Created The Heavenly Beings
    Great Controversy 493
    "Christ created all things in heaven."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 34, 37
    "The Son - the creator of all heavenly beings."
    Christ Created The Laws Of Nature
    Desire Of Ages 516
    "He made the laws which govern all living things."
    Christ Created Man
    Councils On Diet 43
    "Our Creator is Jesus Christ. He is the Author of our being."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 36, 66
    "Christ was still to exercise Divine power, in the creation of the earth and its inhabitants."
    "The Son of God who created man."
    Desire Of Ages 269, 270
    "The same voice that spoke life to man created from the dust fo the earth had spoken life to the paralytic."
    Steps To Christ 88
    "Without Him was not anything made that was made."
    Education 79
    "He who created man understood the value of humanity."
    Mount Of Blessings Preface vii
    "Christ created man."
    7 Testimonies 269
    "Christ created man."
    8 Testimonies 264
    "Through Jesus Christ a personal God created man."
    Medical Ministry 19
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 7
    "He made the world."
    Temperance 276
    "Christ is man's Creator and Redeemer."
    Christ Created The Sun And Moon
    8 Testimonies 288
    "The Sun and Moon were made by Him."
    Christ Created The Oceans
    Desire Of Ages 184
    "He who made the oceans."
    Christ Created The Stars
    8 Testimonies 288
    "There is not a star that beautifies the heavens that He did not make."
    Christ Is Equal To God The Father
    Fundamentals Of Education 142, 179, 382, 536
    "Christ humbled himself from the position of one Equal With God."
    "Christ - the One Equal With the Father."
    "Who was with the Father from Eternal Ages."
    "Him who was Equal With the Father from the beginning."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 34, 37, 63, 69
    "One with the eternal Father-One in Nature, in character, in purpose."
    "One in Power and authority with the Father."
    "The exaltation of the Son of God as Equal With the Father."
    "Only one Equal With God could make atonement for transgression."
    "But God gave His own dear Son - One Equal With Himself."
    Story Of Redemption 13
    "Christ His Son should be Equal With Himself."
    Acts Apostles 333
    "Presenting Christ as He was when Equal With God."
    Desire Of Ages 207, 208, 649
    "He declared Himself Equal With God."
    "He claimed to be Equal With God."
    "One Equal With God, acted as a servant to His disciples."
    Evangelism 615
    "He was Equal With God, INFINITE and OMNIPOTENT.
    He is the Eternal, Self Existent Son."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 8
    Great Controversy 503
    "Him who was Equal With God."
    Messages Young People 255
    "Christ who was the Monarch in heaven, Equal With God."
    1 Selected Messages 69, 70, 308, 321, 371
    "Jesus the Majesty of heaven, He who was Equal With God."
    "Christ - Equal With God."
    "Equal With God."
    "The sacrifice of Him who was Equal With the Father."
    2 Testimonies 200, 426
    "He was Equal With God."
    3 Testimonies 566
    "Christ's position of one Equal With the Father."
    4 Testimonies 458
    "Could only be spoken by DEITY. "Christ when Equal With the Father."
    8 Testimonies 268
    "He has been made Equal With the Father."
    Christ Is God The Son
    Desire Ages 507, 785
    "The DIETY of Christ."
    5 Testimonies 346
    "As DEITY He exerts mighty power on our behalf."
    Evangelism 615
    "The Pre existent, Self Existent Son of God."
    "The Eternal Son of God."
    Evangelism 616
    "The existence of Christ before His incarnation is not measured by figures."
    1 Selected Messages 247
    "The Word existed as the Eternal Son of God."
    "From everlasting He was the mediator of the covenant."
    "The Word was with God and the Word was God."
    "The world was made by Him," and without Him was not anything made that was made"(John 1:3). If
    Christ Made All Things He existed before all things. Christ was God essentially and in the highest sense.
    He was with God from eternity, God Over All, blessed forever more."
    "The Divine Son of God Existed From Eternity, as a distinct person yet one with the Father"
    "He was the surpassing glory of heaven."
    Desire Of Ages 530
    "In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 9
    Christ Is Eternal
    1 Selected Messages 247
    "The Word existed as the Eternal Son of God."
    "From everlasting He was the mediator of the covenant."
    "The Word was with God and the Word was God."
    "The world was made by Him," and without Him was not anything made that was made"(John 1:3). If
    Christ Made All Things He existed before all things. Christ was God essentially and in the highest sense.
    He was with God from eternity, God Over All, blessed forever more."
    "The Divine Son of God Existed From Eternity, as a distinct person yet one with the Father"
    "He was the surpassing glory of heaven."
    Acts Of The Apostles 38, 39
    "Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from All Eternity."
    9 Testimonies 220
    "From Eternity Christ had been man's Redeemer."
    Evangelism 615
    "The Pre existent, Self Existent Son of God."
    "The Eternal Son of God."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 38
    "Christ had EVER stood at the right hand of the Father."
    1 Selected Messages 228
    "From all eternity Christ was united with the Father."
    Fundamentals Education 382
    "The Son of God who was with the Father form Eternal Ages."
    Child Guidance 166
    "Trial cannot move the building which is riveted to the Eternal Rock."
    Desire Ages 600
    "The Eternal Rock, the chief cornerstone Jesus Christ."
    Fundamentals Education 289, 461
    "Those whose souls are not riveted to the Eternal Rock will be swept away."
    "The salvation of our people depends on being riveted on the Eternal Rock."
    Temperance 108
    "The receiver possesses stronger, clearer understanding than before he riveted his soul to the Eternal Rock."
    3 Testimonies 217
    "They need to drink of the unceasing streams which proceed from the Eternal Rock."
    6 Testimonies 146
    "Those whose souls are not riveted to the Eternal Rock will be swept away."
    Fundamentals Education 400
    "The Eternal Word."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 10
    Christ Is God In The Flesh
    Councils On Stewardship 349
    "God manifest in the flesh."
    Desire Of Ages 311
    "He was God in the flesh."
    Prophets And Kings 597
    "God Himself manifested in the flesh."
    Desire Of Ages 326, 664
    "God was with them in the flesh."
    "Christ had not ceased to be God when he became man."
    "The Godhead was still His own."
    "God in human flesh."
    "God was manifested in Him."
    Fundamentals Education 179,180
    "God in the flesh, God in Christ."
    Great Controversy 24
    "The fullness of the Godhead bodily - who was God."
    1 Selected Messages 244
    "Yet He was God in the flesh (Exodus 3:5)."
    6 Testimonies 230
    "God in Human Form has bought life and immortality."
    6 Testimonies 392
    "The GOD who walked with Enoch was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
    Evangelism 616
    "Christ and the Father, standing side by side upon the mount,
    with solemn majesty proclaimed the 10 Commandments."
    Christ Is God
    5 Testimonies 346
    "As DEITY He exerts mighty power on our behalf."
    Desire Of Ages 19
    "God with us."
    "From the days of ETERNITY the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father."
    Desire Of Ages 20
    "It was Christ that spread the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth."
    Desire Of Ages 23
    "He was the INCARNATE GOD."
    Desire Of Ages 484
    "As God He was the foundation of life for the world."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 11
    Fundamentals Education 379
    "The LORD GOD came down to this world clothed in humanity."
    2 Testimonies 200
    "He was Equal With God."
    Christ – The I Am That I Am
    Desire Of Ages 24, 25, 52
    "It was Christ who from that burning bush at Mount Horeb spoke to Moses
    saying I AM THAT I AM."
    "He declared Himself the I AM."
    "I AM the Good Shepherd"
    "I AM the living bread."
    "I AM the way."
    "The I AM is the Daysman between God and humanity."
    "It was He who declared Himself to Moses as the I AM."
    Desire Of Ages 469,470,655
    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM."
    "He announced Himself to be the Self Existent One."
    "When it comes to pass, you may believe that I AM."
    6 Testimonies 20
    "Christ is to be revealed as the I AM."
    Christ Is Jehovah
    Councils On Health 455
    "Jehovah Emmanuel - God of Israel."
    Mount Blessings 34
    "Jehovah Emmanuel - The Godhead bodily."
    Mount Blessings 108
    "Jehovah Emmanuel - God Himself."
    3 Testimonies 328
    "Notwithstanding the INFINITE POWER and MAJESTY of God and Christ, angels became disaffected."
    Desire Of Ages 23
    "The burning bush, in which Christ appeared to Moses, revealed God. The symbol chosen for the
    representation of DEITY was a lowly shrub, that seemingly had no attractions. This enshrined the
    INFINITE."
    Great Controversy 470
    "Like Moses they see the purity and exalted perfection of the INFINTIE ONE."
    The Sanctified Life 38
    "When Christ manifests Himself they feel themselves to be in the presence of the INFINITE ONE and
    acknowledge that the LIVING GOD is above every earthly power."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 12
    Review And Herald 5/11/1908
    "This is the reward of all who follow Christ - Jehovah Emmanuel."
    Review And Herald 10/02/1909
    "This is the reward of all who follow Christ - Jehovah Emmanuel."
    Christ Is The God Of The Old Testament
    6 Testimonies 392
    "Abel was a believer in Christ."
    "The God who walked with Enoch was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
    6 Testimonies 341, 342
    "Abraham (Genesis 18:2, 3) had ministered not only to heavenly angels, but to their glorious commander,
    his Creator, Redeemer, and King."
    Desire Of Ages 23, 24
    "The burning bush, in which Christ appeared to Moses."
    "Christ is the I AM THAT I AM speaking to Moses."
    1 Selected Messages 244
    "We would do well to heed the words spoken by Christ to Moses at the burning bush (Exodus 3:5)."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 411
    "It was Christ, by the power of His Word that caused the refreshing stream to flow for Israel."
    3 Spiritual Gifts 257
    "It was Christ who stood by him and caused the water to flow from the flinty rock."
    Story Redemption 132
    "It was Christ who stood by him and caused the water to flow from the flinty rock."
    Medical Ministry 49
    "It was He who called Moses into the mount and gave him instruction for His people. In awful granduer
    Christ made known the law of Jehovah."
    Desire Of Ages 52
    "It was He who declared Himself to Moses as the I AM."
    "It was he who in the pillar of cloud and of fire had been the guide of Israel."
    3 Testimonies 343
    "They saw the glorious light which covered the Divine form of Christ."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 366
    "Amid the awful glory of Sinai, Christ declared the 10 Precepts of His Father's Law. It was Christ who
    gave to Moses the law engraved
    upon the tables of stone."
    Mount Of Blessings 45
    "It was Christ who had proclaimed the law upon Mount Sinai."
    Mount Of Blessings 47
    "The precepts that God had given to Moses at Mount Sinai were communicated from Christ."
    Ellen White And The Trinity
    www.WhiteEstate.org 13
    Historical Sketches 231
    "Christ and the Father, standing side by side upon the mount, with solemn majesty proclaimed the 10
    Commandments."
    Desire Of Ages 158
    "The same voice that upon Mount Sinai proclaimed the law."
    6 Testimonies 60
    "The law which Christ Himself proclaimed from Sinai."
    8 Testimonies 198
    "By proclaiming the 10 Commandments to Israel, Christ is our Redeemer speaking from Sinai."
    Christ The Pillar of Cloud And Fire
    Child Guidance 182,355
    "The Leader of the armies of Israel, whose glory was enshrouded in the pillar of cloud."
    "From the pillar of cloud Jesus gave directions through Moses to the Hebrews."
    Christ Object Lessons 287
    "Enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night Jesus lead and guided them."
    Desire Of Ages 52, 500, 555
    "It was He who in the pillar of cloud and of fire had been the guide of Israel."
    "From the pillar of cloud and of fire Jesus taught a very different lesson."
    "These words had been spoken by Christ Himself when He was enshrouded in the pillar of cloud."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 298, 311
    "It was the Son of God who, veiled in the cloudy pillar, stood beside Moses."
    "Christ in the pillar of cloud and of fire was their Leader."
    Patriarchs And Prophets 366, 437
    "Christ was not only the Leader of the Hebrews veiled in the cloudy pillar but it was He who gave the law
    to Israel."
    "The Son of God, enshrined in the cloudy pillar."
    1 Selected Messages 315
    "Jesus was the angel enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night."
    "The same law was proclaimed in grandeur by His own voice from Sinai."
    Story Of Redemption 178
    "The Lord Jesus Christ, enshrouded in the pillar of fire by night and the pillar of cloud by day."
    4 Testimonies 159
    "The Son of God, enshrouded in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night."
    6 Testimonies 350
    "From the pillar of cloud Christ declared concerning the Sabbath: 'Verily My Sabbaths shall you keep'."
    Testimonies To Ministers 332, 333, 405
    "The only begotten Son of God when enshrouded in the cloudy pillar."
    "Jesus, their invisible Leader, was shrouded in the pillar of fire and of cloud."
     
  4. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Charles Russell had nothing to do with the SDA Church
     
  5. nate

    nate
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    Spyhunter,
    Charles Taze Russel founded the Jehovah's Witnesses another cult.
     
  6. SpyHunter

    SpyHunter
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    Claudia,
    The Seventh-day Adventist Church derives from the Adventist Movement. There are First-day Adventists, General Adventists, or whatever else they call themselves-- I don't really know because most of them are borderline cults.
    BUT
    Russel did come from that movement. He didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start a cult-- he did go to church at one point (My family has a strong JW background, by the way). And the circle of fellowship he held was the same as which produced those such as White. Simple fact. No reason to get bent out of shape. :)

    Blessings,
    SpyHunter
     
  7. Eric B

    Eric B
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    David Cloud's book on the SDA clains at one point in the past they were not trinitarian. I haven't read it, and don't know the exact claim, and I don't even know how reliable this is, as he seems bent on digging out as much dirt as he can on all groups outside KJVO'ism, and it can often lead to bending the truth.
    It is true that several non-trinitarian groups came ouf of the Millerite movement that also spawned the SDA. Russel was a distant offshoot of it, and while the Advent Christian Church (the primary first day Adventist group, is trinitarian, the Church of God of Oregon, IL ("Abrahamic faith") is unitarian. Then, you have the Church of God 7th Day groups, which are binitarian. I get the feeling Cloud may be using some of those groups to claim that there was widespread non-trinitarianism in the early Adventist movement, but IIRC, in the ads for the book, he may have also claimed to have sources from early SDA/EGW documents.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Whew - lot's o' stories here!

    Claudia's super-long post included the salient point about "The three great powers of heaven" And The Holy Spirit as "The THIRD PERSON of the Godhead".

    Now for "some more facts".

    The primary founders of the SDA church (50 in all)in the 1860's were also members of the 50,000 member "Millerite movement" in the 1840's. It is a movement not a denomination because during that time they did not actually form broad doctrinal agreement or leave their home denominations - about the only thing those 50,000 Millerites did agree on was pre-millennial literal 2nd coming was going to happen in the 1840's.

    Walter Martin points out that the "Premillennial view" was the view that they were most opposed for holding.

    In any case - 50 of that 50,000 eventually went on to form the SDA church in the 1860's.

    17 year old united Methodist teenager named Ellen Harmon (at the time of the 1844 crisis of Millerites) later become one of the group of 50 millerites that formed the SDA church -

    Hint: The United Methodists were Trinitarian.

    James White and a few other prominent SDA founders were from the "Church of the Brethren" -- NON Trinitarian. From the Mid 1800's until the late 1880's a number of key SDA leaders (except for Ellen White) spoke out very strongly against the doctrine of the Trinity.

    IN the late 1880's (immediately after the death of James White) Ellen White began publishing very strong pro-Trinitarian statements in her writings. While it is a fact that Ellen White never came out against the doctrine of the Trinityh - it is true that prior to 1888 she was careful only to reference scripture relating to the work of the Holy Spirit when commenting on His work. When doing that she primarily referenced texts that were considered neutral by the other side.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Interestingly - the non-SDA Walter Martin in his book "Kingdom of the Cults" gets the "history" of the SDA church more-or-less correct and also does a pretty good job on the doctrinal statements of the SDA church.

    (At least to the extent that he states what they are).

    In Includes SDAs in the appendix to his book - dedicating almost as much material to them as to any of those he included in the main section of the book. Martin's view was that the SDA orthodox views on grace the Trinity and the Bible "sola scriptura" excluded them from the list he was dealing with as "cult".

    But the amazing thing about the book is that he is one of the few non-SDA writers actually able to set blind bias aside long enough to accurately state what SDAs believe.

    He is also one of the very few to point out that the SDA and Millerite groups were pioneers in the premillennial literal second coming view during their day - as the RCC had pretty much wiped that truth off the face of the map!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    Gosh I tell ya, no matter what I say, someone takes offense to it.

    all I said was simply "Charles Russell had nothing to do with the SDA Church" and someone accuses me of getting "bent out of shape" LOL! I practically gotta enter the room dancing around and tossing rose petals to these people to get them to not take offense at what I say

    Maybe I shouldve said "Now Honey sweetie, Charles Russell had nothing to do with the SDA Church"

    I dont knowwwwwwwwwww

    some super-sensitive people on here
     
  11. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    wow I didnt know that post was so long, I just copied and pasted it on here and it didnt look that long to begin with... oh well. I guess its cause I copied it from a pdf
     
  12. Jarthur001

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    OK..i'll say it. Cloud is a cult of his own. True he does make good points at times, but i have read many lies...and stupid stuff he made up. Some good does not make it right to error. Hitler as bad as he was had the idea of the VW Bug...a pretty good idea as it turned out.

    I am not taking a stand for the SDA or the JW. But i think it is funny that people keep looking at where a group came from. Paul murdered people...and yet God used him. If you are going to attach a group, base it on doctrine they hold NOW.

    The TW are way off on the Trinity and i will not waste my time debating this.

    I have no idea about the SDA.

    The biggest error i have seen in the SDA is that over who Christ is. Bob post things that seems to say that some of this old doctrine has been dropped. I have not taken the time to look on my own. For now, i'll have to take his word for it. But i have seen other post on here that say things in attach of Christ Deity. Maybe this is no longer held...i don't know. Someday i'll check it out on my own.

    There are many other things (other then the deity of Christ) i do not agree with in the SDA doctrine, but they are not in the realm of a cult.

    Or..that is how i see it [​IMG]

    In Christ..James
     
  13. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    ok..hold on.

    i do not like this phase..

    "Three Great Powers of Heaven"

    The Trinity is so hard to understand, when we try to state it, we always leave something out. This phase is repeated over and over.
    3
    3
    3

    The idea is 3 in 1. This IS very hard to express. Now you may think i'm being picky....i am. But this is not right to show only one side.

    I didn't read every word in that now famed LONG post. Yet in a fast read i saw no 3 in 1.

    The best wording I have seen is by Henry Morris. I'll see if I can find it. I can't remember what book it was..and i have a few of his.


    In Christ...James
     
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    Well I found it..but it is to long for me to type.

    Its found in the book.."A long War Against God." page 275-276.

    Morris shows the Trinity in space, matter and time. How each is one yet of its own. "The universe is not part time, part space and part matter it is all of time, all of it is space, and all is matter."

    Yet time can stand by itself. Matter can stand by itself. and space can do as well. But space holds matter and is there in the pass and the now as well as the future...which is time.

    One God.

    One Son, who is God
    One Father who is God.
    One Holy Spirit who is God

    YET..One God
     
  15. D28guy

    D28guy
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    Claudia,

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Some days ya just cant win, can ya!

    Hang in there, it'll get better! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    Mike
     
  16. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    Is anyone, who doesn't know the difference (no-relationship or irrelevence) between Russel and SDA, capable of debating on this thread?
    I think such person better observe the discussion quietly and then participate later after studying a little further.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I am not sure that the "no 3 in 1" would hold with the right word searches.

    For example in this case - doing another word search looking for the "God is ONE" phrase would have resulted in a another long list.

    But be that as it may - that little bit of history I stated should prove helpful. United Methodists are in fact "real" Trinitarians and Ellen White never spoke out against that view EVEN when those around her did. In fact her writings were very instrumental in building concensus in favor of the Trinitarian view (the one that exists to this day in the SDA doctrinal statements).

    "Hear o Israel the Lord your God is ONE" is THE great statement on the Godhead in God's Word to His people in the OT. It still stands as true - so also is the fact of the 3 persons of the Godhead.

    This is a "boundary condition" for finite beings - like humans. We accept and believe but we can not explain the "infinite center" inside the boundary points.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    that would include about three fourths of the people on this message board since most of the people here keep claiming the SDAs are the same as the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Im just wondering why.
     
  19. nate

    nate
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    Wow we get defensive when others judge wrong but we are quick to do so when it comes to the RCC. Everyone is concerned about the truth when it comes to the SDA church but none of you guys give two blinks about truth when discussing the RCC.
     
  20. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T
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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Some days ya just cant win, can ya!

    Hang in there, it'll get better! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    Mike
    </font>[/QUOTE]I know, it's just terrible Mike, isnt it?

    Claudia
     

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