A question that I hope to get an answer for

Don't be silly, we exist in the finished work of God which includes his Grace, and we live our lives in spite of sinning because of the substitutionary atonement of the Lamb of God. If either of them had not already been in place, we would die at the commission of our first sin! The wage for sin is death!

Can't you see that ALL of God's redemption of man has been completed with the exception of each individual's acceptance of his/her redemption? Acceptance being belief.

Can't you see that in eternity All the work that God says He will do, has already been done, and simply awaits our belief?

Likewise, the fate of those who refuse to believe or return to unbelief, has also been established and awaits the appointed time in the individual to be an accomplished fact.

The only thing lacking in life for any of us is the choice we make between believing or not believing. We are granted by God and under God's grace up to 120 years of decision time. Once this natural life is over for each individual, the condition of one's faith determines life or death.

 

EXCUSE ME? When have I ever said that "the ultimate decisions of all people are already made"? I have only said that the outcome of our choices are already established by God, and we are told which choice results in what outcome. The choice remains ours to make.

I have said that we live in "the finished Work of God! I have said that our acceptance, or rejection of God's plan determines our eternity.

 

Let me see if I can illustrate it differently.

Let's say that the objective is to make a new type of airplane. From experience I can tell you it used to take approximately 8 years from the time the initial contract is let to the time that the objective is achieved. During that 8 years, there may be thousands of people contributing to the design and administration of the project. There comes a point when the design is "baselined" and no further "new" design work continues except that which is necessary to make the design producible or manufacture-able within cost and schedule. That baseline is then "developed" into the final producible design that goes into production. But before it can, a prototype is made and tested. After successful testing, a decision to produce is made. Even so, the objective is not yet achieved until the new design plane is actually built and accepted by the customer. So, with all the work completed to achieve the objective, it all comes down to customer acceptance.

Our salvation is complete, God finished all the work. Now it is up to us to accept God's work, our eternal life depends upon our acceptance.

 

[Inappropriate personal remark edited] I did not say that God depends on anything. I gave you an illustration of a principle. Do you understand the principle? God's work is complete and He rests? It is in His time, and His grace that we hear His words and believe or not.

So, define "the elect", who are they?

[ September 27, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]

 

Hi frogman;

It would seem logical, that if it's not in the scriptures. Then there is no such thing, according to the scriptures.
May God Bless You.
Mike

 

Hi Frogman;
How can something exsist if it doesn't?. I typed in total depravity in my Bible program to see what it had to say about it. It gave me so many refferences it surprized me. I read each one of those references. I didn't find any of them supporting man's total depravity. Let me explain a little futher. I read each verse in context in other words I backed up from where ever the reference was and read the whole chapter. Still I don't see total depravity. I know man is a sinful creature I agree that his imaginings are evil all the time but being saved doesn't stop this all at once, does it?
The word "Total",should never been used to describe man's depravity. For one thing it makes the person who made up the term look dumb.Especially if he then turns it around to mean something else. The word does mean every thing the sum of all that man is completely depraved. IMHO he is not nor could he be, and there be any law abiding society. It would seem to me that a totally depraved man would be very terrifing. I think if this were so then man would have killed him self off long ago.

It seems and I may be wrong that the most used passages to support this is Romans 3:10-18 but after checking just what it is that Paul was quoting. Changed my mind on it.

May God Bless You.
Mike

 

Good Question, I respond by asking Where do the scriptures say man IS totally depraved?

 

Man is TERRIFYING? Is this another of your false doctrines?

Man is not Terrifying any more than man is Glorifying. Man is not Totally Depraved any more than man is Totally Holy. There has been only one man who was holy and the world killed Him on a wooden Cross. There have been many who came close to "holiness" and most of them are now identified as martyrs.

There has not yet been a man who has been Totally Depraved, Though Hitler came close! Not even Sodom and Gomorrah were totally depraved, though their depravity was indeed great enough for God to obliterate them.

My point is that the "absolutes" you apply to man simply are not true. By applying such to man you draw a very distorted picture of God's creation. Scriptures do not do that! Even that great city of Nineveh was not totally sinful. They were able to hear the word of God brought to them by Jonah, and much to Jonah's chagrin, Nineveh repented and was spared. Now, you can say that spiritual regeneration of Nineveh preceded Jonah in Nineveh if you wish, but the evidence does not support you, and the Word of God does not say that.

Man is not terrifying!

 

Not true, it says that eternal security is given to those who have faith. For those who have faith are not judged and cast into the lake of fire, but pass from death unto life with Jesus Christ.

If one can stop believing, one can lose faith! It is that simple.