A Saviour unto Israel

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Acts 13:23

    Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    This was not peter here, but paul, the apostle unto the gentiles, who makes this very important statement, and sheds much light upon for whom Jesus Christ came to save as according to promise..

    Another important scripture that lends to the truth of this is Lk 1:68-69


    68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, [see Matt 1: 21]

    69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake [or promised] by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

    This promise of redemption of His people, as the Lord God of Israel, hath been revealed and promised since the world began..

    This takes us back to the first proclamation of the promised salvation or redemption to Gen 3:15

    15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel

    This seed of the women would be Israel [Christ and His People]..and the which, salvations first promise is to and for this seed Israel, the seed of the women..

    This is some what typed out or signified in Rev 12:1-2

    1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. [the birth of Jesus Christ]

    This women had also a seed as we see later in Rev 12:17

    17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    [ so Christ and his Members are the seed of the women Gal 3:16,29]

    So salvation and redemption from the conception of the world, had only a particular seed in view, which later became known as Israel..

    But now, its important to understand, that the Israel paul is referring to in acts 13:23..is not Israel according to the flesh..but Israel according to Promise..

    Lets show here how paul discerned another Israel other than national Israel Rom 9:6

    Not as though the word [or promise] of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel [Acts 13:23],] which are of Israel [nationally]:

    You see, the promises of redemption and salvation as stated in Lk 1:68-70, to the people of God, the God of Israel, the promise were not to national israel..but a spiritual remnant within that nation, and as we will find out, a spiritual remnant among the nations of the world, which constituted Israel,[Rom 11] the one paul preached in Acts 13:23

    Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    Now paul had the Israel of God [Rom 9:6] in view when he made this statement in the above..

    Now get this next point, for its tricky, but nevertheless its extremely important because of the symmetry and analogy of scripture.

    The difference between what paul preached here in acts 13 :23 and what peter taught here in Acts 5:31

    Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    The difference is this..for peter was correct in that Jesus was exalted to the right hand of God to give repentance to a certain chosen people Israel..but what peter did not know but what paul did know..is this:

    That Israel was no longer viewed as a mere physical ethnic nation, but that Israel was comprised of Gentiles as well, who became Israel..

    Notice..Eph 2:12,19

    12That at that time ye [gentiles] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    They [Gentiles] are now no more strangers and aliens, but fellowcitizens [of Israel Gods chosen people] and so now they also have the same right to be called Israel,

    in fact, even more of a right than the non elect jews of that nation..because the Israel of God was never non elect jews, but Elect Jews like Jacob over Esau or Isaac over ishmael..Children of promise..

    So salvation and redemption has always been limited unto Israel as a people, but the mystery that was not clearly unveiled since the world began [Gen 3:15]

    Eph 3:3-6


    3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

    5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


    6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: [Lk 1: 68-70]

    In that Israel was made up of Gentiles also.. Yes thats the unveiling in more detail by Paul of this mystery..[Israel of God was never a physical nation but a Spiritual people or Nation Rom 2,1Pet 2 ]

    but nevertheless, true to promise, salvation and redemption is and has always been limited to a chosen people [Israel]..not limited to a certain geographical location as national Israel in the middle east or a certain ethical people [respect of persons], but the scope of this Israel of God is world wide..but nevertheless its only to the world of Gods Israel, all others, are blinded..

    You know how paul says in Rom 9: 6

    For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


    So likewise, they are not all the world [for whom Christ died] which are of the world [the inhabited earth]

    Just like there was an Israel within Israel that God had a respect and favor for, likewise there is a world within the world that God has a special regard for, and that world is the Israel of God, the Spiritual seed of Abraham..
     
  2. billwald

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    Christianity has inherited the blessings and curses made to Israel. The current nation Israel has nothing to do with NT prophecy.
     
  3. savedbymercy

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    Salvation Limited to Israel -

    Here are some more scriptures that set forth the particular nature of salvation from types..

    In looking forward to the work of the cross and its accomplishments and its attending blessings, and to who they applied, we have this in Zech 12:10

    10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Notice here to whom the spiritual blessings of repentance was to be poured out to..

    Not everyone in the whole wide world, but to the house of David and the inhabitants of jerusalem..

    The Jerusalem here is not the city in Israel, but the jerusalem from above:

    Gal 4:12

    But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    Heb 12:23

    But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    Zech 12 is describing their conversion because of the power and blessings of the cross..

    Notice it says the house of David ! The House of David or the Tabernacle of David includes the gentiles..

    This we see Acts 15:14-16

    14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.


    15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

    16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    The gentiles are called the tabernacle of David, intimating the mystery that paul fully taught about in His Ministry, but we see here that the apostle James had somewhat been enlightened of the scripture, for he quotes Amos 9:11-12


    11In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

    12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

    And he of course applies this to the out calling of a people from amongst the gentiles to be a people for Gods name sake..The LORD GOD OF ISRAEL..

    Zech 13:1

    1In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

    Again, particularily pointing out to whom the fountain was open to..that cleanses from sin and uncleaness [the blood of christ] it was not to or for all mankind, but for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the house of David.

    These designations indicate Gods elect apart from the other inhabitants of the world..

    So God has always kept a particular disciminate people to whom He deals with favorably, over and above other people..and its by His grace alone..
     
  4. Dr. Walter

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    I have already refuted this distortion of God's word several times on this forum and no one yet has been able to provide an answer. You have simply done what everyone else who takes this confused position has done. You have simply SPIRITUALIZED and RATIONALIZED Israel into the church by confusing different scriptures taken out of context. God's election of National Israel unto salvation is just as unconditional as God's election of individuals unto salvation and BOTH are true and BOTH will be realized according to God's purpose (Rom. 9-11) and neither contradicts the other.

    There is no HONEST way that Romans 11 can be used IF CONTEXT is the determining factor to deny that "all Israel" refers to ETHNIC Israel in that context.

    In that context "ALL ISRAEL" in Romans 11:26 is:

    1. The same Israel in verse 25 put in contrast with the elect "gentiles"

    2. The same Israel in verses 11-24 that has been cut off and will be grafted back in "again"

    3. The same Israel in verse 26 identified as "Jacob"

    4. The same Israel in verse 28 that is PRESENTLY enemies of the gospel but neverless "beloved" according to election by the Father

    5. The same Israel according that God by election has a "remnant" of individuals called out of her in every generation in the past and present time of writing (vv. 1-4) and who will have an elect remnant called out of her until the fullness of the Gentile elect be called in and then "all Israel" according to God's promise of election will be saved in one day at Christ's coming (Rev. 1:7).

    6. In Romans 2:11-28 the context is ETHNIC JEWS who have been PHYSICALLY circumcised and yet the true Jew AMONG ETHNIC JEWS is the one whose heart has been circumcised and it is this same argument Paul continues in Romans 9:5-11 in regard to election AMONG ETHNIC JEWS as he distinguishes elect ETHNIC JEWS from elect gentiles in Romans 9:24-33.

    So your position is unbiblical, confused, contrary to the context and simply error. I dare you or anyone else on this forum to tackle the above six problems by the immediate context.

     
  5. savedbymercy

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    More on the Mystery

    Back to the Mystery that paul was called to expound on moreso than any other apostle, and which he proclaimed[ by the gospel] is that the True

    Israel of God [ Gal 6:16], the True seed of abraham [ Rom 9:8 , Heb 2:16] who are the heirs of the promises of God [ Gal 3: 7,29 ; 2 Cor 1:20; Rom 15:8; Acts 13:32] are a body composed of all those, wether jew by birth or gentile by birth, who are of the Faith of abraham, who is the father of us all [Rom 4:16,13]vs 13

    13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    The world here is that world that Abraham was made Father of as in Gen 17:5

    5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

    People of the many nations are this world..
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    The seed of Israel shall be justified !

    In keeping with the particular , discrimanating nature of Gods Love and Salvation..That its for a special people Israel as paul preached in Acts 13:23

    23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    No promise to anyone else..


    here is more scripture proof of the same: Isa 45:25

    25In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory

    In the LORD, that is in the Lord Jesus christ, whom is the True Israel of God..Isa 49:3

    3And said unto me, Thou [Jesus christ] art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.


    For it is He [ Jesus christ] that Has prevailed with God, whom is a Prince with God, and His seed with Him, that is, those who had been chosen in him before the world began..Eph 1:4

    Isa 49:3Thou are my Servant , O Israel in whom I will be Glorifed cp Jn 17:4

    4I I [Jesus christ] have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


    Now those chosen in Him [ Jesus christ], are too created for Gods Glory Isa 43:7,21

    7Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

    21This people [not all people] have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

    1 Pet 2:9

    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    Now the Promise of Justification is for Israel [ a distinct people] and not Israel after the Flesh, for all the promises to her were conditional and confined to this earth, and that covenant she broke :

    Jer 31:32

    32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    Heb 8:9

    9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

    But the Israel of God, chosen In the True Israel Servant of God, The Lord Jesus christ..

    The Gospel promises have always been directed towards a certain seed, a special chosen people of God known as Israel..which fleshly israel only typified, because the True israel is not chosen by race, but by Grace..for The Lord is the Hope of His people Israel..

    Joel 3:16

    16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.


    Paul preached even as the Apostle to the gentiles [and because he knew the mystery] That God raised up a Saviour unto the whole world ? No, but unto Israel He raised up a Saviour..

    The Lord is the Hope of His people, not the devils People..

    Closing references:

    Isa 43:20-21

    20The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

    21This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

    Joel 2:26,27,32

    26And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    27And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

    32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. cp Acts 2:39

    39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.


    The Angel announced this blessed Truth about Jesus Matt 1:21

    21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


    All those who teach that there is no discrimination with God, in that He chose a special people above all the Rest to be their God, and they His People and wrought salvation for them..


    All such are teaching a false Gospel..
     
  7. Dr. Walter

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    You are pitting two equal truths against each other when both are true. God promised Abraham an elect "NATION" from his own loins that would be saved according to the eternal convenant of redemption as well as promised him a "seed" NOT FROM HIS OWN LOINS but from "ALL NATIONS" that would be saved according to the eternal covenant of redemption.

    The salvation of both is by the eternal covenant of redemption. Hence, the covenant of redemption is equally applied to both in the scriptures. Hence, what Jesus teaches the PHYSICAL BORN JEW named Nicodemus in John 3 is equally true to PHYSICAL BORN GENTILES as the same everlasting covenant of redemption is the basis for BOTH.

    Hence, why take salvation texts that are explicitly by context directed at PHYSICAL BORN JEWS and spiritualize the term "Israel" "Jew" "Jacob" to mean the "church" when what is applied to the Jews in keeping with God's promise to Abraham according to his own "loins" is the same salvation applied to the NATIONS who are not of his own "loins" as though there is a contradiction or a choice that must be made between one or the other when both are equally true?????

    I have thoroughly disproven your interpretation of Romans 9:8 and exposed it for a half truth. I did it by asking two very simple questions. The first question was are Isaac and Jacob physical born seed of Abraham? The second question was are Isaac and Jacob also the spiritual seed of Abraham? You cannot deny either and therefore it is not either or but BOTH and that is the point of Paul in that context and verse 5 proves it as Paul explicitly define Israel in LITERAL ETHNIC terms in verse 5 and says the promises pertain unto them. However, verses 6-13 defines HOW it pertains unto them in demanding MORE than physical birth but in addition spiritual birth or TWICE born Jews as the real children of promise in keeping with the promise of God to Abraham about a 'NATION" from his own loins IN ADDITION TO the promise of a seed not from his own loins but of other NATIONS. - Both are true but you pit one against the other.
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    The Physical descendants of Abraham, Israel according to the flesh, are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    So God has not Promised to save them. Matt 1:21

    21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

    None of Abraham's children of the flesh are God's People or children.
     
  9. Dr. Walter

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    Can't even respond to the evidence placed before you? Can't even answer the questions given you? Just act like a parrot and repeat an interpretation proven to be wrong! Sad indeed.

    Again, in the context of Romans 9:7-13 are Isaac and Jacob PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham? Can you deny that? You are asserting that PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham cannot be the children of promise! Isaac and Jacob are both PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham but that fact does not deny they can be true children of Promise.

    Therefore Paul's point in Romans 9:8 is not that PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham cannot be children of promise as you interpret it, but rather the promise to Abraham pertaining to PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham described in verse 5 requires the ADDITIONAL new birth and therefore only those PHYSICAL BORN SEED of Abraham that never experience NEW BIRTH are not the promised seed of Abraham.

    So simple, so clear, so easy to see that only a man blinded by false doctrine can refuse to see it.

     
  10. savedbymercy

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    If a person is merely born a ethnic jew, they have no relationship with God period. But if a Person is born again by the Spirit of God, whether jew or gentile, they belong to Israel, they are God's Children.
     
  11. Dr. Walter

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    Well, you have come a step closer to the truth and I applaud you for that attempt. Now, take the truth you have admitted to above and apply it to Romans 9:5-13 in regard to what is obviously a context concerning the promises of God to the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham as verse 5 explicitly says.

    The context is in regard to ONLY PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham as verse 5 proves and as the five examples prove (Isaac, Jacob, Esau, Rachel, Sarah) and the issue is whether or not God's promise to Abraham's PHYSICAL SEED (v. 5) has been been voided (v. 6) or is there additional qualifications for that promise to be applied to PHYSICAL ISRAEL. The answers are NO God has not voided his promise to the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham (vv. 5-6) and YES there are additional qualifications to receive those promises which is IN ADDITION TO being a PHYSICAL seed of Abraham they must also be a SPIRITUAL seed of Abraham though elective new birth (Isaac, Jacob).

    God has not voided his promise to the "NATION" of Israel (Rom. 9:5; 11:1-2) but merely qualifies and explains that promise and neither has God replaced the NATION of Israel with the NATIONS of the Gentiles but BOTH are objects of the everlasting covenant of redemption and BOTH are saved the very same way. God has only TEMPORARILY turned from PHYSICAL ISRAEL to the Gentile nations but will return and finish his promise to save "ALL ISRAEL" at the coming of Christ (Rom. 11:25-28).

    The "church" is not Israel as the "church" had not previous existence to the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth but was built and comissioned by him with the apostles and new Testament prophets being the FIRST to be set in the church (1 Cor. 12:28; Eph. 2:20) while God's covenant of redemption has been saving multitudes of people before the "church" ever came into existence (Acts 10:43). So your theory that the "church" equals "Israel" is unbiblical. Salvation of God's promised children preceded the building of the church as the church had no "foundation" before the apostles and no existence before Christ built it.
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    dw

    Don't need your applaud. So then, the jews in and of themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    The flesh profits nothing.
     
  13. Dr. Walter

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    That truth is taught all through the scriptures just as it is taught in Romans 9:8. However, your error is that you LIMIT this text and context to only that truth when there is MORE than that truth being taught.

    You cannot deny that verse 5 restricts the subject to the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham.

    You cannot deny that verse 6 poses the question in regard to the promises in verse 5 to the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham whether God has failed to do as he promised to those in verse 5 - the physical seed of Abraham.

    Verse 7-8 deny that God has failed in his promise to the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham but merely provides the ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATION for the PHYSICAL SEED of Abraham to receive those promises in verse 5 and that is ADDITIONAL SUPNERATURAL BIRTH as typified in Isaac's birth and according to unconditional elective birth as typified in Jacob's POSITION over Esau.

    God has not voided his promise to the NATION of Israel or replaced the NATION of Israel by the NATIONS of the gentiles. God will save a NATION of physical seed of Abraham through NEW BIRTH as well as save a multitude from ALL NATIONS - and He will do it through the SAME WAY - Unconditional election (ch. 9) and Election unto faith in the gospel (ch. 10) according to His own time table which involves the salvation of all the promised seed from the Gentile nations (11:25) and then from the NATION of Israel or "Jacob" (Rom. 11:26-28)that is the argument of Paul in Romans 9-11
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    God has no promises to the physical seed of Abraham, because the physical seed of Abraham in and of itself are not the Children of God. Rom 9:8


    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Now God has not made one promise to those who have no relationship with Him, who are not His Children. Thats Paul's point in Rom 9 that the promises Rom 9:4 were never to physical Jews in and of themselves in the first place.
     
  15. Dr. Walter

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    When you interpret a text contrary to its context the context will expose your error and verses 3- 5 expose your error. These verses explicitly and clearly state that God did make such promises to the physical seed of Abraham:

    3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.


    You say God didn't but Paul says God did make such promises to those defined by him as "according to the flesh." Does not God say "who are Israelites TO WHOM pertaineth the adoption" as well as to all the other promises listed????

    Your position excludes one truth at the expense of another truth. The whole truth is that God made a promise to Abraham concerning a "NATION" from his own loins as well as "NATIONS" not from his own loins that would together be the whole of the promised seed.

    This text is in a context proving that God has not forsaken his promise to ETHNIC ISRAEL after the flesh, from the loins of Abraham but is only clarifying that IN ADDITION TO physical birth as a PHYSICAL JEW the promise is applied only to TWICE BORN JEWS.


    The promise to Physical Jews is conditioned upon second birth rather than a denial that such a promise was given to PHYSICAL JEWS. It was given to PHYSICAL Jews who experience SECOND birth and therefore God's promise to the NATION of Israel from the loins of Abraham was a promise based upon SECOND BIRTH. This promise to this elect NATION is not antagnistic to NATIONS but both are equally saved the same way through SECOND BIRTH without confusing them or replacing one with the other as you have done and are doing.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    dw

    Wrong, the Promises were made to The Children of Promise, people of Faith.

    Those jews who were merely Abraham's kin through the flesh, they are not the Children of God. Rom 9:8

    8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    What you fail to understand, is that the Children of Promise are born first through the flesh, but they will also be born by the Spirit of Promise to distinguish them from the other children who are just born of the flesh and who are not Heirs. But if they are just born of the flesh, and thats it, then God has no promises for them, except hell..
     
  17. Dr. Walter

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    Do you think you can do away with verses 3-5 by simply saying "wrong"??????

    You are afraid to deal with the context because it exposes your error.

    None are denying that mere children of flesh are not children of promise. However, you are denying that God elected a nation and that nation begins in the flesh but will end in the spirit and that is exactly the assertion Paul is making. Just as any elect individual there is a time and place when salvation occurs and so it is with the elect nation of Israel. Gentile "nations" do not replace it nor has God permenantly rejected His promise to the nation of Israel but has a time and place when they will all be saved (Rom. 9:25-28).

     
    #17 Dr. Walter, Aug 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2011
  18. savedbymercy

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    The promises of vs 4 of Rom 9 were not to the Physical Seed of Abraham, but to the Children of Promise The elect remnant within..

    Rom 9:4

    4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    All this was concerning the Elect Remnant. The giving of the Law was to lead the elect remnant in Israel to Faith in Christ Gal 3:

    24Wherefore the law was our[The elect] schoolmaster to bring us[elect] unto Christ, that we[elect] might be justified by faith.
     
  19. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    The elect "nation"and the elect "remnant" of that nation are not the same and yet both are elect and both are elected unto salvation as that is the only kind of election attached to the promises in verses 3-5. While God's timetable for bringing the elect "nation" to salvation is on temporarily hold, God is saving a "remnant" of ethnic Jews regardless of the nations repudiation of the gospel as it is the "nation" NOT THE REMNANT that Paul is talking about when he says:

    Rom. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

    Who is the enemy of the gospel? Not the remnant! The nation that has been cut off temporarily is the enemy of the gospel. However, in regard to election God is not through as God has promised Abraham to save a "NATION" and "touching election, they (the nation that is now enemies of the gospel) are beloved" but not yet saved. However there is a time when this ELECT nation will be saved (Rom. 11:25-28).
     
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    dw

    Yes they are. The elect remnant was the beginning of the Elect Nation.

    This is seen also in Paul's statement here Rom 11:7

    7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    The rest that were blinded were not a elect nation lol..The elect nation was the elect that obtained the Promises, clearly the distinction is made.

    Your philosophy would mean paul should of wrote

    7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest of the election were blinded.

    There is only one election and its by grace not by race.. The election is a Nation 1 Pet 2:9

    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    This verse can apply to the election of grace that was in National Israel..
     
    #20 savedbymercy, Aug 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 1, 2011

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