A sincere question for Catholics

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 3AngelsMom, Jun 18, 2003.

  1. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom
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    Hello everyone, I know I said I was going to stay away, but this article has left me wondering if the Catholic brethren out there know what's happening in their church.

    Are you guys aware of these statements?


    Cardinal Francis Arinze, who's considered a possible successor to
    Pope John Paul II, has denied Jesus is the only way to heaven. In a
    recent interview the spirited 66 year-old deputy for outreach to
    other religions was asked, "So was Jesus wrong when he said he was
    the way, the truth and the life?"

    Arinze responed, "If a person were to push what you said a little
    further and say that if you're not a Christian you're not going to
    heaven, we'd regard that person as a fundamentalist...and
    theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful
    concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one
    another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man's wisdom. I
    think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in
    Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble-I was amazed. I
    listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, "The grace of
    God is working in this man." The interviewer then repeated the
    question, "So you can still get to heaven without accepting
    Jesus?" "Expressly, yes [he
    laughs with the audience]" (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99)

    I'm not trying to mess with anyone. This article shocked me, and I am sincerely wondering if it is a shock to the Catholic community as well, or if you are singing right along with this man?

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  2. trying2understand

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    No shock to me and I would agree.

    But there is more to it that just one sentence.

    Let me ask you, from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of America, was every person that ever lived on the continent condemned to Hell? Or do you think that God could have chosen to accept some into Heaven even though they had never even heard the name Jesus, let alone the Gospel?
     
  3. Rakka Rage

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    that is very shocking... i wonder if it is a common view.

    you agree that Jesus is not the only way?

    do you also agree with this?

    John.14
    [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
     
  4. Kathryn

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    Here is the text of Cardinal Arinze's recent speech at Georgtown University where people walked out because of his stand on homosexuality, contraception, abortion and other assaults on the family. He is from Nigeria, and not well known here. And yes, he does believe Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. In fact he says so in his speech. He is my personal favorite to become the next Pope.

    [ June 18, 2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
  5. trying2understand

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    Rakka, why don't you answer my question?

    Let me ask you, from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of America, was every person that ever lived on the continent condemned to Hell? Or do you think that God could have chosen to accept some into Heaven even though they had never even heard the name Jesus, let alone the Gospel?
     
  6. thessalonian

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    Jesus is the only way. The Cardinal's statement does not contradict that except in the writer's and anti-Catholic minds. Romans 1 and 2:15 is the key but why bother. You will say na na boo boo your interprutation is wrong in my opinion.
     
  7. Ps104_33

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    If they are one of the elect they would go to heaven if they are not they dont.

    Are we all to assume that the buddhist that was refered to will remain a buddhist even after hearing about Christ and will still go to heaven?
     
  8. trying2understand

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    Ok, so if they were one of the elect but had never heard of Jesus, did they go to heaven?
     
  9. Ps104_33

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    If they never heard of jesus they arent one of the elect.
    ps I edited my last post.
     
  10. trying2understand

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    Then I take your answer to be that every person that lived on the continent of America (and Australia for that matter) from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of those continents was absolutely condemned to hell because they could not have ever even heard of Jesus, let alone accept Him.

    Is that your answer?
     
  11. Ps104_33

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    I cant answer that question because I would have to be able to read hearts. :D
     
  12. Ps104_33

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    The question is not whather a man can get to heaven without ever hearing about Jesus, but can a man who is a buddhist, after hearing about Christ can still go to heaven if he remains a buddhist. Can you answer that one?
     
  13. trying2understand

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    Actually, the question posed in the opening post was:

    "So you can still get to heaven without accepting
    Jesus?"

    I leave it up to God to decide as does the Church.

    Others may presume to know the mind of God.

    But you haven't answered my question.

    Was every person that lived on the continent of America (and Australia for that matter) from the time of the Ressurection until the colonization of those continents absolutely condemned to hell because they could not have ever even heard of Jesus, let alone accept Him?

    What do you say?
     
  14. WPutnam

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    AngelsMom,

    Let me explain this in the simplest way I can.

    Did Christ die for all of mandkind? Is it God's desire that all would come to Him, via the salvific sacrifice on the cross?

    If you agree, then what about the individual who, having never heard of Christ, nevertheless lives the life that Christ would have him to live, cannot the salvific cross apply to him as well?

    Or, bypassing the infinite knowledge, mercy and justice of God, is this individual going to go to hell anyway even while for all intents and purposes, the man has lived the live that Christ would have him to do?

    Or should we all put the matter in the hands of God as only He can know the heart?

    This is not to say that we can relax and not preach the gospel and "make disciples of all nations," as it is intuitive obvious that the odds for the "righteous pagan" may be quite remote. Therefore, the onus is still on us to Christianize the entire world and have them hear the gospel of Jesus Christ! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!
     
  15. GraceSaves

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    Jesus is indeed the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him. And anyone who sincerely desired to know God, but was unable to know about the truth of Jesus Christ, and would end up in Heaven, would be there BY WAY OF JESUS CHRIST and HIS SACRIFICE ON THE CROSS. They don't get to Heaven through anyone but Jesus, even if they never knew Jesus.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  16. GraceSaves

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    I cannot know the questioneer's intentention, but there are two things to note here. One is the fault of whoever wrote the article, and ther other, assuming there is not missing dialogue, is the fault of the questioneer.

    Here is the original question:

    "So was Jesus wrong when he said he was the way, the truth and the life?"

    And then the author of the piece writes:

    "The interviewer then repeated the question,"

    Now, I admittedly have hearing problems, but my vision is quite good. What follows is NOT the same question:

    "So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?"

    If the interviewer thought he was asking the same question, fine, but he wasn't. And the writer of the piece on this interview, who was studying this in hindsight, directly misreprented the situation by calling it a repeat of the same question. Jesus being "the way, the truth, and the light" is not the same thing as "accepting Jesus." And it never will be. One is a True statement about God. The other is a statement about an event in a single person's life. They are not the same. I do not trust the author of this piece one bit, seeing as how his other commentary is already explicitly against the Cardinal, and that he twists the situation to meet his preconceived beliefs.

    God bless you and may God have mercy on the deceitful author of the piece.

    Grant
     
  17. BobRyan

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    OK - then lets take three non-Christians.

    1-Goes to heaven.
    1-goes to purgatory
    1-goes to hell.

    In the Catholic teaching on this -&gt;(God so loved the World that He Gave...) - what is the difference between the three of them?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. GraceSaves

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    I'm not God, Bob. I don't make such judgements, nor would I ever be able to know if a non-Christian will be in Heaven or not, until I am there. We can hope that they will though, unless you have a particular liking of the thought of those who do not know Jesus roasting in hell. I know that our God is a merciful God, and I trust His judgement. Nothing more to it than that.

    God bless,

    Grant

    P.S. Your inclusion of purgatory in that list either means you still don't know what Catholics believe it is, or you put it there to be facetious. No explanation needed, if that is the case.
     
  19. Ps104_33

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    That was not the original question. Read carefully below:


    Arinze responed, "If a person were to push what you said a little
    further and say that if you're not a Christian you're not going to
    heaven, we'd regard that person as a fundamentalist...and
    theologically wrong. I met in Pakistan a Muslim. He had a wonderful
    concept of the Koran. We were like two twins that had known one
    another from birth. And I was in admiration of this man's wisdom. I
    think that man will go to heaven. There was a Buddhist in Kyoto, in
    Japan. This man, a good man, open, listening, humble-I was amazed. I
    listened to his works of wisdom and said to myself, "The grace of
    God is working in this man." The interviewer then repeated the
    question, "So you can still get to heaven without accepting
    Jesus?" "Expressly, yes
    [he
    laughs with the audience]" (Dallas Morning News, 3/20/99)

    Are we assuming that this buddhist, being in contact with this bishop never heard of Christ? Shame on that bishop! this man chose to remain in his false religion and despite this fact the bishop said he could still go to heaven. Right?
    This is a diferrent situation that the hypothetical scenario that you set up.

    So. Can a man who is a buddhist, after hearing about Christ, still go to heaven and remain a buddhist?
    Any other Catholic want to answer this one? T2U is avoiding the issue with alot of his usual disingenuousness.
     
  20. DanielFive

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    Welcome back Kelly.

    Kathryn you make a point of showing us where Cardinal Arinze quoted John 14:6, that proves absolutely nothing. Even the devil can quote Scripture, it's believing it that counts.


    Bill said:
    Christ died for the elect, all of the elect WILL come to Him.

    John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep AND AM KNOWN OF MINE.

    Bill, are you saying that Christ would have one of His elect live a life in which He was completely ignorant of God. Strange theology. Now faith is not required at all, is that what you believe?

    How can anyone live the life that Christ would have him live if he has never heard of Christ let alone surrendered his life to him?

    God Bless

    Enda
     

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