A special message for those of you expecting to go to heaven

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Holiness is required

    “… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
    because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)

    “… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)

    “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
    if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
    and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)

    More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8


    Perfection is required

    “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48, NKJV)

    “But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete …” (James 1:4, NKJV)

    “… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle
    or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)

    More verses: John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:3-4, Ephesians 4:13, Hebrews 10:1


    This is only your reasonable service

    “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, and beg of you in view of [all] the mercies of God,
    to make a decisive dedication of your bodies [presenting all your members and faculties]
    as a living sacrifice, holy (devoted, consecrated) and well pleasing to God,
    which is your reasonable (rational, intelligent) service and spiritual worship.” (Romans 12:1, Amp)


    Describing Jesus’ church

    “… a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing … holy and without blemish.”
    (Ephesians 5:27, NKJV)


    How to be part of it

    If you have been born-again …
    you have the Holy Spirit inside of you to help you become an overcomer.
    The Holy Spirit is trying to purify you through His sanctification process.

    You have the free will to choose

    -- to be obedient to the Scriptures
    -- to co-operate with the Holy Spirit
    -- to be sanctified unto holiness and perfection

    .
     
  2. Yeshua1

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    Jusification gets me to heaven, while sanctification gets me more into the image of jesus!

    there will be NONE who have been justified before god fail to mke heaven, just some will be disappointed that they did not apply sanctification enough in this life!
     
  3. BobRyan

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    Romans 2:6-16 comes to mind.

    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
    13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
     
  4. evangelist-7

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    Sorry, far too much spiritual Truth for da YeshuaOne!
    But, we iz used to it, so it doesn't faze us in da least.

    .
     
    #4 evangelist-7, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2013
  5. Yeshua1

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    the "truth' is that we walk in the HS, and THAT is the ONLY way to become more like christ, as its His work in and tru us daily!

    Submit to him daily, yielding to His will and ways...

    Are you into Lordship salvation?

    And John wrote to address Gnostics creeping into churches teaching that we are saved in the spirit, but God cares little abou tthe flesh, so do what you want anyways!

    that is whathe mrant by keeping Commandments, just addressing those wanting a loose living lifestyle!

    NOT saying we are saved or kept by doing that!
     
  6. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Do You Believe.....

    evangelist-7....A few questions for you.....

    1)Do you believe that a person who has been genuinely saved can ever lose that salvation? (We can neither earn nor deserve it)

    2)Do you believe that the consecration/sanctification of a believer is a "progressive" work...or a "one-time" event?

    3) Do you believe that ANY believer can ever achieve "entire sanctification" or a state of "sinless perfection" while still here in this flesh?

    4) What are your beliefs about the justification of the believer (in God's eyes) and the "imputed" righteousness of Christ in the believers life?

    5) What part of the holiness of God does the believer have to "work-up" or earn and what part of that holiness does God Himself, by His Holy Spirit, have to divinely "impart" to us?

    6) How does the believer make him/or herself "holy"?

    7) Can we, as believers, actually do enough good works or make ourselves "holy" enough to EARN or DESERVE God's favor?

    These are just a few of the questions that arise when the subject of holy living is being discussed.

    I believe that Salvation, (which IS Justification), Consecration, Sanctification, and Holy living are OF THE LORD and are a product of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God in the life of every believer. The application or evidence of these actions in our lives after we are born-again may take place at differing paces in each individuals lives depending upon how obedient and submissive each individual is to the Word of God in their lives. While the same truths from God and His Word are applicable in all of our lives, people grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord at different paces and for differing reasons. The "constant" that underlies that is that God...is the "same today, yesterday, and forever". He never changes. Thank God for His mercy, His Love, and His Grace...without which none of us would have ANY hope whatsoever.

    Bro.Greg Perry Sr.:saint:
     
  7. Salty

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    Excellent questions - and I am anxiously waiting his reply
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    both him and the SDA brother!
     
  9. evangelist-7

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    IMO, the whole of Scripture teaches ...
    It is God's desire that man work with Him hand-in-hand in meeting His objectives here on earth
    (with the exception of the Creation, of course).

    I hope my answers meet with your approval.

    .
     
    #9 evangelist-7, Apr 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2013
  10. Yeshua1

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    for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    Philippians 2:13

    seems that you and him might have a slight disagreement here!

    And we do NOT sauntify ourselves in order to keep being saved, that would be a denial of the cross!
     
  11. saturneptune

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    Man does not work with God hand in hand. We are not co-gods. We are His Creation, used by Him to accomplish His purposes here on earth. That is a complete mischaracterization.

    Your answers do not meet my approval, unless one is apply for the position of Pharisee. I will address them one by one.

    1. The verses in Scripture to which you refer are being taken out of context. Salvation is of the Lord. The Holy Spirit seals it. We do not slip in and out of salvation based on our daily actions. That would be bad news for you, as your inward character is no less or more good than other Christians. Romans 7 and 8 make it quite clear that the Christian life is a continual battle between the sin nature left in us, and the new Creation in us. If there is no battle, there is no salvation. You are making salvation, faith and grace of function of man's actions, in other words, a Pharisee type action.

    2. Justification is positional. Sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit making us more like Jesus daily. We do not slip out of salvation if we fail to meet your denominational standards. Since we still have the sin nature, we probably will stray from the path towards Jesus, but the Holy Spirit will snap us back in short order. God disciplines His children. Again, if there is no forward path towards Jesus, there was no salvation in the first place. Again, salvation, faith and grace are of the Lord.

    3. You just contridicted your own premise for the op. You are drawing an imperfect line in progress towards being like Jesus at death. You use smoke and mirrors to make it appear closer to perfection, but it is where God puts it when He calls us home. Another contridiction is that in slow progress towards sanctification, you cannot pinpoint when one loses salvation or regains it. What thoughts, deeds and motivations move the Lord to withdraw such, and what actions move the Lord to restore such? It sounds to me like you believe man controls the Lord.

    4. Not even worthy of comment. When the Lord chooses someone for salvation, the Holy Spirit becomes active in repentence, regeneration, and salvation. End of story.

    5. Again, so much baloney. The Holy Spirit gives us a new nature, makes us a new creation. Our nature is the love the Lord. Our free will at that point might give in to the old nature, but will always return to the Lord in short order through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Before the Lord chose us, our free will only had the ability to choose one evil over another.

    6. Holiness is a work of the Lord, not man.

    7. We do not deserve or earn anything. Salvation, faith and grace are a gift of God.

    I strongly suggest you read the book of James, and learn that good works are a byproduct of salvation, not the other way around. Christ chose us, we did not choose Him.

    I have been both Presbyterian and Baptist, and there are differences, but nothing like the hocus pocus your are publishing.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    very good!

    that is why its the act and worjk of God to justify and make us more like christ, for the one that makes that all happen is the Holy Spirit, and less time I checked in the Bible, he is still God, so what can we do "kick Him out?"
     
  13. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Well...Alright Then...Thanks!

    SN...I'll just say thank you for "taking up the cause" and answering E-7's messed up teachings. I had a moment of clarity the other day that produced the questions I asked but it sometimes takes me longer to enter the debate and go toe-to-toe on the responses. You beat me to it and for that I thank you. You did a very able job of it and I'm not sure I could have done any better. I struggled for more than a few years about the matter of eternal security just because of false teaching of this sort until the Lord gave me light on the all-encompassing sufficiency of the sacrificial work of Christ and His precious Blood on the cross. It is a complete covering and good for ALL eternity and based not upon our sometimes failing faith but the ALWAYS perfect, complete, and all-encompassing Faith of the Lord Jesus Christ. When God the Father looks at us....praise God...He sees the faith, righteousness, love and Blood-covering of His own Precious Son...our Substitution...Amen?......AMEN!! Once...and forever for all who have trusted Him.

    Anyway...thanks for stepping up to the plate and hitting the homer!:thumbs: Asking good questions and making passionate statements is my strength moreso than apologetics or debate. I never have been real good at the fine art of the "comeback".

    By the way..Evangelist-7....If THAT is the kind of stuff you teach people when you witness then I have a suggestion for you. If you somehow manage to "win" a convert with your kind of soteriology, then I strongly suggest that you take a high-caliber handgun and put a bullet in the middle of their forehead (in Christian love of course) as soon as they say "amen" to the sinners prayer....because they WILL lose that kind of salvation sooner rather than later. That bullet may be the ONLY guarantee that they will actually make it into heaven. You'd be doing them a favor in a strangely twisted sort of way. I pray you'll find the real truth sometime sooner rather than later. If that is the kind of "theology" they teach at Calvary Chapels then I'm glad I never went there. Sorry. I mean you no ill will but the kind of thing you teach denies the Grace of God, the sufficiency of Christ and puts men under the bondage of their own imperfect works. I pray God will give you the light to see this for your own good and the good of those you may teach......VERY SOON!

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  14. annsni

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    Author Greg Gilbert puts it this way:
    “When we stand before God at the judgment, what do you plan to do or say in order to convince Him to count you righteous and admit you to all the blessings of His kingdom? ... [What could we possibly] hold up before Him and say ‘God, on account of this justify me!’

    “ I’ll tell you what every Christian whose faith is in Christ alone will do, by God’s grace. They will simply and quietly point to Jesus... ‘ O God, do not look for any righteousness in my own life, but look at your Son. Do not count me righteous because of anything I’ve done or am. Count me righteous because of Jesus. He lived the life I should have lived. He died the death I deserve. I have renounced all other trusts, my plea is Him alone. Justify me O God because of Jesus.” (adapted from “What is the Gospel” p.83)


    THIS is what I believe the Bible teaches and what I will stand on. I'm a worm. God is great.
     
  15. SovereignMercy

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    Won't have to say a word, we'll be transformed into His likeness because of His work.

    Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    You can still try the saved by keeping the law bit, big problem though is that ONLY jesus ever managed to do that, and he is GOD!
     
  17. evangelist-7

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    Please carefully review the black list in the OP of this thread:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=85612

    ... and tell me ...

    Why are all of these warnings in the NT?
    (most are written to the churches)

    Some specifically warn of losing eternal life!

    Just for example,
    What happens to these BAC who do not ...
    hate their lives in this world
    lose their old sinful lives
    forgive everyone
    obey the truth
    follow the Spirit
    put to death the works of the flesh
    led by the Spirit of God

    What happens to these BAC is ... they do not gain eternal life!
    Ref: see the black list

    .
     
  18. SovereignMercy

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    We who trust Jesus don't have to worry, you who trust yourselves do. It's pretty simple.

    Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one."
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Guess this was missing from their bibles!

    Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
     
  20. evangelist-7

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    Gook Luck, boys 'n girls!
    an'
    Tell your pastors "Good Luck" also!

    .
     

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