a thread started - so here it is

:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I can only agree with you once in awhile at this point in time. If I agreed with you more I would have to examine myself...as I would be Verrrry nervous:thumbs: Nevertheless...you seem to be very likeable person,and I would encourage you to continue to serve the Lord ....go with what you know...until you know better QF!

If a train was going at 70 mph for 6.25 hours heading west.....and an opposite train was heading east at 64 mph for 5.75 hours....if both started at equadistant points.....what would be the total miles covered before they intersected and crashed head on because the conductor was texting???

 

You're correct, he doesn't address the scriptures you give. Quips? Yes. Addressing the scriptures you give? Not so much. :wavey:

 

Well...he cannot....here is another example of what he does with the scripture using it out of context ,as you have pointed out many times;

Agedman was schooling him in the OP......he never responds to those verses about God giving or witholding saving knowledge, but jumps somewhere else. To think about them and what they Clearly teach would be to start to come to truth on this whole issue.....he cannot offer on the verses his "view" because that "view" would be exposed as sub -biblical.
We could spend hours correcting these verses, but I would do that more with someone who was indeed ...seeking....by God's grace

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

The answer is the indefinite integral of ]e^x dx = e^x +C

 

And you are claiming the "high ground" ? Puullleeeze.

 

Agedman...another very solid post...you have clearly shown that the passage in question is answered by the other verses.thank you for another useful post.:applause::applause::thumbs:

 

Agreed, its just that it would appear that there is some element of pride here involved with those who hold to a Non cal position, as they seem to resist that its God who is the One that saves us!

 

Are you serious with that philosophy? “Genuine” however, it has been predetermined that some can not hear it?”

Free will (or whatever you want to call it; see the second line of my signature) should be defined as volition and this sustains the meaning that a creature has the ability to consciously choose; one can not do both, have this ability and not have this ability in any logical sense. If creaturely response is determined by causal means to have an irresistible effect on the creature then creaturely volition logically becomes void.
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I will not be responding to your conglomeration posts which mixes your words with mine while neglectfully being unclear in who said what. You have ignored the moderation of this board in doing so and have been here long enough to learn how to use the quote feature. The course you take shows your unwillingness to take the time and I believe is a tactic used by you to avoid rational discussion while placing a burden on others to try to sort through your mess.

 

Thanks. It is damnable Hyper-Calvinism and I’m disappointed that such a distortion to the Gospel is allowed to be expressed on this Christian board. I’ll probably move on rather than continue to tolerate such a doctrine and the unconscionable tactics they use here in their attempts to debate and proselytize it.

 

Please try to address the issues

 

This kind of rhetorical immature boasting is meaningless to the conversation. I addressed the accusation of agedman line for line in posts #13, 14, and I leave it up to the rational intelligent readers to decide.

 

Of course you know I was responding to your accusations of me taking verses out of context and your claims to have proven such. Why you are so bent on twisting my words as you try to refute the light of the Gospel message to be genuinely given to all men as the scriptures reveals is beyond me.

You error from the beginning in that while you view everything through a determinist lens thinking the promise was only for a pre-selected few you miss the meaning of the glorious message being told to all the world that God is full of love and grace and in His wisdom He provided a way to salvation through the Spirit of His Son who paid the price for the sins of all His creation and whosoever believes in love of this truth shall be saved; that is the promise from before the foundation, that is the Word that has been brought into the world, and whether or not a man is willing to accept the truth as revealed to him is what he will be judged by, God is 100% just in His judgment.

(Deu 32:4) He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

From the beginning, man, who was made in the image of God, was endowed with not only sense and understanding but with a will and that’s why sin and darkness entered the world. If man were not created with volition and all his creatures were predetermined in what they would choose none of this message would have any meaning because there would be no responsibility for man to be judged on. BUT, God brought the LIGHT onto every man that comes into the world, and that IS TRUE LIGHT, judgment is TRUE JUDGMENT and none will have an excuse not to respond to the light that God has given to every man.

(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Yes, man would not believe in something he could not see, that being in darkness, he didn’t comprehend the depth of God’s love and righteousness and wanted to be as a god himself. In man’s created nature and of gaining knowledge of good and evil all men would fall short in their judgments and become sinners; there is only One God and He is a Sovereign God of judgment between this good and evil. Man therefore must die to himself and be reborn in the spirit of Christ to live in paradise with Holy God. This only comes by faith and that ability of faith for all men is a genuine necessity.

(Joh 3:3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

All men falling short and becoming sinners condemned them all from the beginning of creation because of his knowledge and all were told unless they now took of the tree of life they would die in their sins. God would not and did not make a promise and then tell men to do something he had no ability to do! He provided a light to the truth of His love and grace in His judgment and this was for every man that came into the world.

(Gen 3:22) And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

In John is the story with the pieces being put in place of the progressive revelation of the Son coming and bringing with Him the good news of the Gospel, bringing that Word into all the world that our loving Creator, in His grace, has provided the way for salvation through faith and this is the story that God prepared for ALL the world He created. Indeed, the light of the Truth, the Word of God was brought into all the world. Jesus, that Light said: I am the way, the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father but by me; and He also said: And I, if I be lifted up from the Earth will draw ALL men unto me. In your determinist’ view you are trying to force fit the scriptures to suggest that He would hide in the dark for some people and not provide enough light for them to find their way. THAT is not the Nature of our God of love and righteous judgment and would make the witnessing of John to this story meaningless for most of the creatures that entered the world!

So let’s look at the part this story we have been discussing:

"5 And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The light falls on fallen man, sinners, which we all are, but the darkness – dark, sinful man perceived it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John gives testimony to that light that ALL men through him, his testimony of this Light, might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light .
9 That was the true Light, which lights every man that comes into the world.

Again, that light is for every man that comes into the world and to try to force fit to mean to mean to a pre-selected few denies the whole of scripture which speaks of God’s love and righteous judgment and promise for all men from before the foundation of the world!

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He was in the world, even from creation, and the sinful world knew Him not. (That is why the Word came into the world and John is giving this testimony!)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

In the fullness of time He came unto His own – His country, city, temple – and these people received Him not.

Some thought of themselves to be privileged by birth, preselected as God’s people and pedigreed to be saved. But God is not a respecter of persons, the condition upon which judgment comes is real faith and there is a real responsibility to respond to the truth of the Light as it WILL NOT BE FORCED UPON ANY.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

BUT, every man that would believe the truth of the light that is given, Jews and Gentiles alike, they are sons the moment they believe, and because they are sons God sends forth the Spirit of His Son in to their hearts.

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

They were born, not by being of pedigree to Abraham, natural generation, nor the will the man, but through God adopting them by the spirit He put into their hearts upon belief in the truth of that light that He placed into all the world.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It is true, as John testifies that the Word was made flesh, the Apostles beheld this glory, the light shone forth in grace and truth, the goodness of our benevolent God which gives ample light for the pardon of sins to all men who came into the world.

It is astounding to me that you and others would come onto this board and try to turn the light of this message of the love, goodness, truth and promise (the Gospel) for all mankind and attempt to preach it (the Gospel) as a message of darkness for all but the preselected few to fit your determinist’ doctrines but again, you have failed miserably in your attempts to project such a dark message which is contrary to the Nature, justice and love of God for all His creatures.

 

If a person doesn't address the Scriptures given here, as Iconoclast concisely and truthfully pointed out, and resorts rather to other things, I think it needs to be addressed. Anything other than this, such as quips and the sort should be considered altogether unnecessary, and such things need to remain "unsaid"?

Scripture responses need to be rebutted, refuted, agreed upon or whatever to stay in tune with the thread, that is, actually addressing the passages presented rather than attacking the person who had written them and casting snide remarks on their person.

One party has yet to address those scriptures Brother Iconoclast has given, and it looks like one has stooped away from doing so. That's fine. That's better in my opinion than offering jeers towards anothers person or showing ones displeasure for another person.

There is no need for other comebacks on this with name calling and demeaning remarks for only one side involved, which is soley toward those who hold to a reformed view of Scriptures.

It is also unnecessary, I believe, to address reformed brothers as espousing "damnable" doctrine. None to which this remark was addressed are hyper by any means. Posts such as these are not in line with the OP, and their intent is obvious.

If a brother gives a Scripture response, it would be nice to see that addressed instead of seeing how one has derogatory feelings toward another, and to see the demeaning remarks of other brothers as we see here.

I say all of this in brotherly love.

- Peace

 

Good advice, why don't you try it sometime instead of bringing all your personal issues in it as you just did again in the last post?

 

This one seems to be going down hill fast so I'm going to close it here. Feel free to start a new thread but try to leave the personal stuff out of it and discuss the topic only....PLEASE.

May I also recommend using your ignore feature for posters who come across to you as particularly agitating. This will make your time here much more pleasant.