A verse for Calvinist

Ha, ha! Cause I had to go play golf! :laugh:

Jer, it's not that God didn't know they would believe. But more to the point, it was in His "election"/predestination that they would suffer. Granted" merely means that "God allowed it to happen," K?

Thanks for the "goading," though.

skypair

 

It clearly said they were granted to believe in Him and ALSO suffer for His sake. You twisted it all up to get your meaning.

Php 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Php 1:30 experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

 

What? Skypair twist scripture,never!:laugh: Welcome to the world of debating with skypair.

 

As Allan pointed out here recently...please show where John used the words "world" or "whole world" in any of his writings to mean anything other all of (sinful) mankind...

I won't be holding my breathe

 

I know, Jer -- you weren't looking for an 'interpretation,' were you? :laugh:

You wanted something more along the lines of "Fall in line, skypair, behind my interpretation of the passage," right? Like "granted" only has one meaning and it is the one you assign to it -- namely, "given." :laugh:

"Oh what clever webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

You know, of course, that for your interpretation to be true, it a) has to make sense and b) has to be confirmed elsewhere in scripture as well, right? Does God send us adversaries, 1:28? As soon as you are saved, is it your opinion that God sends the demons of hell to persecute you? I bet Satan does, but not God, don't you?

skypair

 

I "twist" hair, Gh. Used to put my wife's in a mean-looking "French twist" and even a "French braid" down the back of her head. She looked so beautiful!

Haven't had much practice with scripture, though. :laugh: Are you, perhaps, saying that there is only one interpretation of scripture allowed -- and that one is YOURS?? Or would you admit that there is a) God's interpretation and b) men's interpretations and agendas to consider? Do you think man can "carve out" a pretty mean-looking theology from the Bible by just redefining terms according to his "theory?"

Suppose such a man or men were endeavoring to establish the "City of God" on earth during their lifetime(s)? Don't you think they could take their own words and make them fit God's intended meanings?

skypair

 

Young's Literal Translation

Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Joh 6:33 for the bread of God is that which is coming down out of the heaven, and giving life to the world.'

 

I'm not asking for a translation...I'm asking where JOHN used the phrases world or whole world to mean anyone other than all of mankind. The greek...not the YLT.

 

Joh 3:16 οὕτω γὰρ ἡγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.

Joh 6:33 ὁ γὰρ ἄρτος τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐστιν ὁ καταβαίνων ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καὶ ζωὴν διδοὺς τῷ κόσμῳ.

Better?

 

Thayer:

8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom_11:12 etc)
8b) of believers only, Joh_1:29; Joh_3:16; Joh_3:17; Joh_6:33; Joh_12:471Co_4:9; 2Co_5:19

 

John 3:17


Does this mean you will change your views?

My guess is no.

 

John 3:17 further proves my point...you changing your views?

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

 

There are lots of these. How is this even considered a legitimate question?

John 12:19 So the Pharisees said to one another, "You see that you are not doing any good; look, the world has gone after Him."

οἱ οὖν Φαρισαῖοι εἶπαν πρὸς ἑαυτούς, Θεωρεῖτε ὅτι οὐκ ὠφελεῖτε οὐδέν· ἴδε ὁ κόσμος ὀπίσω αὐτοῦ ἀπῆλθεν.

John 12:25 "He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.
John 13:1 Now before the Feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that His hour had come that He would depart out of this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
John 16:33 "These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."

We could make this list very long.

 

I added world, but I should have left it at "whole world" only. John 12:19 is hyperbole, btw.

 

I agree, but isn't the point disproven simply by looking at the evidence?