A very serious major doctrinal change after the apostles

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    The NT churches spread the gospel and confirmed it’s truth with signs and wonders

    “… and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.” (Acts 2:43, 5:12).

    The NT churches were given powerful spiritual gifts to be used in the church and for evangelism
    “There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit … the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge,
    faith, gifts of healings, the working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues,
    interpretation of tongues.” (1 Corinthians 12:4-11)

    Paul was trained by the Lord for 17 years (Galatians 1:11--2:1), but …
    “… my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom,
    but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be
    in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 2:4-5, 1 Thessalonians 1:5)

    The apostles warned that false teachers and false doctrines were coming
    “… there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies
    … And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
    By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words …” (2 Peter 2:1-3)
    Also see 2 Cor. 4:2, Eph. 4:14, Eph. 5:15-17, Col. 2:22, 1 Tim. 1:10, 2 Tim. 3:13, 2 Tim. 4:3-4, Heb. 13:9

    The 2 major causes of the early destruction of the spiritual gifts in the Christian church ...

    First, we must recognize Satan and his powerful influence

    Satan, our mortal enemy, is the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
    “the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9).
    “there is no truth in him ... he is liar and the father of it” (John 8:44).
    “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4) … and … “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31).

    No one works against God and His purposes with more fury than Satan.
    He obviously attacks those who have the most spiritual power and authority.
    And he obviously attacks the doctrines that have the most spiritual power attached to them.


    Second, the “have-not” church leaders were an obvious problem
    The Lord did NOT give powerful spiritual gifts to everyone in the NT churches.
    These gifts were special anointings, which were connected with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
    Naturally, those who did NOT have these spiritual gifts were jealous of those who had them.
    The “have-nots” in church authority had to find a way to protect their prestigious positions.
    They decided that pointing to 1 Corinthians 13:10 was their safest and best excuse.
    And many “have-not” church members went along with this rationalization.

    1 Corinthians 13:
    8 … But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease;
    whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
    9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
    10 But when that which is perfect (complete) has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child;
    but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.
    Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as also am known.

    “But when that which is perfect (complete) has come” … the NKJV footnote says:
    “Most likely, this is a reference to the Second Coming of Christ and the completion of all things
    (see verse 12). But some have interpreted this as referring to the completion of the NT canon.
    As far as the NT canon being "that which is perfect" … it simply cannot be what Paul meant.
    Good exegesis simply disallows this interpretation. Paul was writing to the church at Corinth
    and he was writing things that were perfectly understandable to them. They had no way
    of knowing that there was even going to be a New Testament canon when Paul wrote this.
    I don't believe the Holy Spirit would have inspired Paul to write something to them that
    would have been totally incomprehensible because this was not at all a prophetic writing.

    “For now we see in a mirror dimly” … the NKJV footnote refers to Philippians 3:12

    “Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected;
    but I press on that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.”

    “face to face” … the NKJV footnote refers to 1 John 3:2
    “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be,
    but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

    The inevitable result of this major doctrinal change
    There was a steadily-decreasing belief in this baptism and its’ resulting spiritual gifts.
    Unbelief, and the lack of seeking these blessings, resulted in fewer and fewer people receiving them.
    So, belief in the doctrine of the “second blessing”,
    and the knowledge that the spiritual gifts had not passed away,
    spiraled downward, and a great many dry years followed … until the early 1900’s.

    .
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    Do you own a pair of glasses? Read who performed the many wonder and signs done? Not "The NT churches " as you infer but the apostles ONLY.




    They were given it through the laying on of the apostolic hands (2 Cor. 12:12; Rom. 1:11; Acts 6:5; 8:17-19; 19:6; etc.). They did not receive them directly from the Holy Spirit but indirectly through the apostolic office. When the office ceased so did the ability to convey spiritual gifts. When the last of those upon whom the apostles laid their hands died so did these particular sign gifts.

    The prophetic prediction of Satanic signs and wonders are in the "latter times" and I believe with the Roman Catholic Church, then Pentecostalism/Charismatic movement and the absolute proof is TOTAL DOCTRINAL CONFUSION but all confirmed by the same signs, wonders and miracles and common doctrinal defined experience.
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    the purpose of the sign gifts were revelatory in nature, the apostles/prophets spoke doctrines from God, the Apostles wrote them down...

    the Holy Spirit used signs and wonders to confirm jesus was the messiah, that the Gospel was from God...

    PLEASE note that the author of hebrews refers to signs and wonders done by Apostles to confirm the messiah, but NOW not needed, as they established the Gospel as from God!

    NO Need to have those signs and wonders today as normal, as the Gospel is now found in the completed bible!
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

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    What about miraculous healings? Do you think that is for today?
     
  5. evangelist-7

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    The message was delivered and confirmed by signs and wonders … Praise God!
    The message was written down in the NT a few years later.

    The message read and delivered today also needs to be confirmed by signs and wonders.
    Why does the SAME message today NOT need to be confirmed today?

    People in little villages in foreign countries don't have Bibles!
    Just like Muslims in little villages in foreign countries don't have Qur'ans!
    All kinds of people don't have Bibles.
    All kinds of people who have access to Bibles don't read them.

    But, if someone comes and performs miracles, people become very interested.

    For this reason, the "completed Bible" excuse is an ENORMOUS JOKE!
    Congratulations for being a jokester, enormous or otherwise.

    .
     
  6. Yeshua1

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    Think that all heaing is really from the Lord, in that it can be medicine.surgery, and at times divine healing, but its God choice how to do that, and NO faith healers today!
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    God "might" use things like dreams/visions to bring in the gospel to say Muslim lands, "might" doa sign/wonder to confirm jesus is Lord...

    thing is that is TOTALLY up to God, and IF he chose to so something like that...

    Shortly after, the Gospel itself, and theBilb ewould be sole and sufficient for all things spiritual!
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
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    Paul instigated the first doctrinal change.
     
  9. evangelist-7

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    Written by the Administrator of a Christian Forum ...


    I was once a Cessationist and I BATTLED AGAINST this topic... all I was doing was battling against God.
    I surrendered... finally surrendered and a lot of what I wrote above is what He showed me and pointed out to me.
    I ignored and refused to accept all those scriptures and events I mention in this post while I was in bondage
    to the Cessationist doctrine(s). All those chapters might as well been removed from all the Bible's I had.
    When I surrendered, first seeing, and then understanding, and then accepted the truth of those scriptures followed.
    Until I threw away that man-made Cessationist doctrine... what God did in my heart "was not possible."
    The "cliche" about having "one's eye's opened"... well... when eyes ARE opened to the truth...
    they can't be closed again. My eyes were not opened and that cessationist doctrine ENSURED that they stayed
    closed to the truth of God's Word. Thus the very HARD period of surrender began some years ago.

    .
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    many baptists believe in a personal prayer tongue, but NOT one for public worship, nor signs/wonders performed by one gifted to do them, but whren God decides to do a healing or something else in his sovereignty and in response to prayer!

    So baptists when they say ceased.NOT saying God cannot heal, nor do a miracle, its that NONE are gifted today as a miracle worker, faith healer, its that the Lord sovereign decides whwn and where and IF Himself!
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    GE:

    Trade mark and guarantee above across board: "_I_" this "_I_" that, EVERYTHING IS "_I_", so that even God CANNOT, UNLESS "_I_" this or "_I_" that.

    Mate, you may fool most most of the time, yourself all the time.

    This 'METHOD' was put in perpetual 'Movement' by Wesley who searched for the grace better than grace ... AND FOUND IT!

    There's nothing surer, you'll find that 'grace', because it's grace that does not find you!
     
  12. evangelist-7

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    Continuing with the Administrator of another Forum (see post 9) ...

    I wrote:
    Almost everyone turns a blind eye to what God has been doing in the way of signs/wonders/miracles.
    But, at least they refrain from attributing it all to Satan.


    He responded:
    I've raised this fact in many other threads. People don't understand if they CAN'T call a s/w/m of satan...
    they need to REALLY look into their heart and ask God... WHY not?
    This is one of the MAIN elements in God leading me OUT of the cessationist bondage until the day I was finally free of it.
    Then I was truly able to "see" what was false (of satan), fake (of man), and what was real (of God).


    I hope this is instructional for someone here.
    .
     
  13. Moriah

    Moriah
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    Evangelist-7
    ,
    Do you know about this type of stuff going on in deceived denominations, denominations that believe in nowadays speaking in tongues?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM


    [​IMG]
     
    #13 Moriah, Jul 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2012
  14. billwald

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    The one person Paul could not corrupt was Luke. The plain text of Acts shows that the Jerusalem Church followed traditional Temple worship and tolerated Paul as long as Paul stayed out of Jerusalem. After the Temple was destroyed Paul's followers got their revenge.
     
  15. Moriah

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    What a horrible thing to say about Paul and Christians taught by Paul. You state that Luke was not corrupt, yet Luke did not write against Paul. You speak twisted deceit.
     
  16. billwald

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    Luke wrote factually, not sympathetically. Not like one would treat a traveling companion.
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    Are you saying here that the greatest of All Apostles, the One granted the revelation on Grace/Law as none other, as somehow a counterfeit, or corrupted "officially" Christian teachings?
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

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    You should read about Marcion. You kind of sound like him.
     
  19. Moriah

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    Many people misunderstand Paul to their destruction.

    Paul did not teach disobedience to Jesus’ teachings, as the reformed groups believe and teach.

    Paul taught that people are “no longer” forgiven by the works of the law like circumcision, dietary laws for eating and drinking, observance of special days, ceremonial washings, gift offerings, and sin offerings.

    And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. Romans 11:6.
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Paul taught that one is saved by grace of God, which is applied thru receiving jesus by faith Alone. period!
     

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