A.W. Pink - The Doctrine of Election

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by markwaltermd, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    Fresh out of the toaster and ready for download. Free as always!

    http://www.thecalvinistcafe.org/

    In The Doctrine of Election, Pink forwards a comprehensive treatment of this often misunderstood and maligned Scriptural teaching. Herein, Pink elaborates on the strong Biblical support for this key doctrine of grace, deflates the common objections to this doctrine, and demonstrates that an understanding of election is essential to sound preaching.

    Stay tuned for the posting of the companion work, The Doctrine of Justification!
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Mark, I thought you werent a big fan of doctrines? :confused:
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    As long as they are from the Bible!
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Are you implying something by your statement Yeshua?
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    no, just saying that he would accept doctrines as long as they are biblical, and the Doctrine of election is definitly that!
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Do you recall the conversation in CC? I was falsely accused of putting doctrine before Scripture & my argument was as you've indicated....that the Doctrines of Election & Grace are found in Scripture.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    many feel that Election IS the central premise of the scriptures, as ALL Giods activities tie into that doctrine!
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    And others do not see any connection (or do not understand) the Doctrines of Grace in scripture.
     
  9. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    Then you don't know me very well.
     
  10. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    That's an un-truthing of the truth. If you forgot the truth of the matter or if you are still carrying a chip on you shoulder, you can PM me. Try to be a little more gracious and not publish your angst on a different board, different thread. If you are feeling injured, the mature pattern would be to discuss those perceived wrongs with those who you believe wronged you.
     
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Just read JI Packer's article on the matter.
     
  12. Van

    Van
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    The link took me to a 199 page write-up. So I opened the introduction and read until I was aghast at the shoddy argumentation.

    First reference to scripture was Acts 15:18, which reads, "Says the Lord which makes these things known from of old." So in context, what is being said is God through His scripture had made known that the Messiah would come, and both Jews and Gentiles would seek God. However what is read into the text is God has predestined everything. LOL

    Next Pink makes the point that we should buy or acquire truth and not sell or relinquish it. Hence a platitude everyone would agree with.

    Then Pink indicates he quotes 2 Thessalonians 2:13, yet he cuts off the last part of the verse which contradicts his claim. Pink leaves off the part about being chosen through the sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth, because that does not fit with his "mistaken" doctrine. He then bridges the election from the beginning to Ephesians 1:3-4, and indicates the same election is in view, even though this one occurred before the foundation of the world. Shoddy argumentation.

    So by the numbers, Pink assumes people reject his view of the doctrine of election because they are prideful and are wanting to merit their own salvation. Next he conflates the corporate election before the foundation of the world with our individual election through faith in the truth. He also claims names are written in the Lamb's book of life "before" the foundation of the world, but the text reads "from" the foundation of the world.

    In summary, just by reading the first few paragraphs of the introduction, we find that he has nothing to offer except shoddy argumentation.
     
  13. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    Pink is correct on this. Rejection of the Biblical truth of election is man-fabricated carnal doctrine.

    You may disagree with the observations that Pink has made, but his arguments are not shoddy.

    The problem you seem to be having with this is not with Pink, for Pink is not the first to expound on the doctrine of election. You seem to be having a problem with the acceptance of the eternal decrees of God. That's a more encompassing issue.
     
    #13 markwaltermd, Aug 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 3, 2012
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Do you hold that God predetines towards the saints ALL things according to His plans and purposes in christ, as per Paul?
     
  15. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    I believe as per Romans 8:29-31.

    The same God who foreknew us is the same God who predestined us to be heirs -- is the same God who called us out of the world -- is the same God who justified us and conformed us to the image of his Son -- is the same God who sees us to glory.

    Beautiful, gracious, just, humbling and Scriptural.
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Or you can send Guy Frederick to do your speaking for you since he is your mouthpiece..... you forget, I reached out to you & you just were not available.

    I invited you to have direct dialog, gave you my phone # but you cant do that either. Oh yes, I forgot.... you cant have confrontation.... well to bad, that's life. But of course cant deal through that either apparently. Do me a big favor & erase me totally from your Forum as I 1st asked you to do because I want no affiliations with you or that thing.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    :applause::applause::applause::applause:
     
  18. Van

    Van
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    No, Pink's argument is simply a logical fallacy, attacking those who hold a far more solid doctrine of election, as flawed rather than addressing their views.

    It is not a matter of debate, Pink edited 2 Thess 2:13 to avoid addressing being chosen through faith in the truth. If he had actually presented what the verse said, it would have undercut his mistaken doctrine. Shoddy argumentation.

    And then you, sir, say I have a problem rather than addressing the specific points I made. Shoddy argumentation.
    Show me from scripture how you support your view. Pretty simple really. I showed that Pink's effort was without merit.

    The election described in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 happened "from the beginning" or at a minimum after creation, and I believe from the beginning of the New Covenant. The Election described in Ephesians 1:3-4 happened before creation. Therefore, sound exegesis demonstrates they are two different elections, the first corporate, the second individual.

    I also showed where Pink claimed names are written in the Lamb's book of life before the foundation of the world, when the verses read from the foundation of the world. Shoddy exegesis.

    Rather than saying something is wrong with me, why not address these problems with Pink's presentation.
     
    #18 Van, Aug 3, 2012
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  19. Van

    Van
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    Yet another Calvinist assertion, devoid of any actual support in scripture.

    Here is how Ephesians 1:5 actually reads. He predestined us [referring to those "in Christ] to adoption as sons [referring to our being resurrected in glorified bodies] through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will. I completely agree with this view. Are all these blessings bestowed on us before we are in Christ or do we get these blessings such as predestination to adoption after we are in the Beloved?
     
    #19 Van, Aug 3, 2012
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  20. markwaltermd

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    Please don't make the mistake of equating your exegesis to sound exegesis, for to make your point, you have placed 2 Thessalonians 2:13 in opposition to Ephesians 1:4, and that is your own doing. That is, they both refer to a time before the foundation of the world, in past eternity. On this point, I agree with many great commentators who have gone before us. This predestination in eternity past -- before we are born, called, justified, sanctified and glorified -- agrees with the whole counsel of Scripture, and most clearly with Romans 8.

    We are not sanctified before we are predestined, and we are not predestined because of an outward holiness. We also don't become predestined at some moment that we exhibit saving faith. Still, it is our inward holiness and sanctification that must be present before we make any assumptions about the condition of our own election, before the foundation of the world. Frightening prospect, I know, but better to be shaken up a bit than to find some new avenue to insert our merits into God's eternal decrees.
     
    #20 markwaltermd, Aug 3, 2012
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