A.W. Pink - The Sovereignty of God, updated version!

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by markwaltermd, Aug 9, 2012.

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  1. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    I just added an updated version of this Christian classic to the ebook blog, with coding and graphic improvements. This is the unabridged version, including the chapter and the appendices which were not included in the Banner of Truth version. Free to all!

    http://calvinistcafe.blogspot.com/2012/04/blog-post_07.html
     
  2. Jerome

    Jerome
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    Huh? Just what Pink teachings did Banner of Truth delete?
    And why?
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    More gobbledegook from Mr. Pink. As with all things Calvinist, he states a truth, then redefines the meaning of the words. God is Sovereign! Absolutely. God does as He pleases! Absolutely.

    Next He claims his opponents say God is trying to save the whole world and is failing. But what is the actual position of non-Calvinists?
    That God provided the means of salvation for the whole world, but only those God puts spiritually in Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death of the cross. Therefore, the real difference is in how God's purpose is accomplished according to scripture and not the invention of men.. Are we saved by grace through faith, or are we saved by grace and given faith. How does scripture read to you.

    God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore He is not the author of sin. He presents the gospel and begs us "be reconciled to God" but allows us to choose life or death. This is our Sovereign God doing as He pleases. Love does not demand its own way, and God is love.
     
    #3 Van, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
  4. mont974x4

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    Thanks! I ordered the Banner version several months ago before I realized how they gutted his work to fit their own agenda.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    Are sinners, who are dead spriitually to the things of God, able to give life to themselves in order to be able to place faith in Chrit?
     
  6. Van

    Van
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    Hi Yeshus1, of course a sinner cannot give life to themselves. But a sinner, dead in his or her trespasses can put their faith in Christ. I have answered this question more than a dozen times, and you simply keep asking it, never addressing the answer. Scripture is crystal on this point, why do you deny it?

    Read Matthew 13:1-26. The first soul was unable to trust in Christ, just as Calvinism claims is the condition of all men. However, the second, third and fourth soils were able to trust in Christ, yet you claim because they were dead in their trespasses, they could not.

    Paul wrote in Romans 9:30-33 about folks seeking God by works and by faith.

    Just read your Bibles folks, and turn away from the unbiblical assertions of Calvinists.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    Sovereignty of God

    A. W. Pink presents his argument for exhaustive determinism, God has predestined all things, in this way:

    1. He asserts Acts 17:28 says since we are “encompassed in God” that means our very actions are controlled (caused) by God.
    2. Next he cites Daniel 5:23 and indicates that because we are in God’s hand, both our life-breath and our ways, this means he directly causes all our thoughts and actions.
    3. Next he points to Proverbs 16: 9, which says we make plans, but God directs our steps. ​

    All of these citations demonstrate God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, but also demonstrate we make autonomous plans which are confined or limited by God. God certainly can and scripture clearly teaches God does at times intervene and dictate our actions. However, God does not dictate our choice to sin, to murder, to turn away from God. That is our action in rebellion of God. But our Sovereign God allows our rebellion for His purpose which is to choose for Himself a people whose autonomous faith He credits as righteousness.
     
    #7 Van, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Actually, by reading the Bible, you just might find yourself actually agreeing with calvinists on at least just HOW God saves sinners like you and me!
     
  9. mont974x4

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    I know I was on the fence until really studying John. If anyone has read John Piper's book called Desiring God you can see how he made the change from Arminianism to Calvinism. It also led him from being a college prof to being a preacher.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    Would say that once you realise just how the fall affected man, in that we were spirutal dead to God, that Giod has to be the One to reconcile us back to Himself...

    that he did NOT trust salvation to us fallen fickle creatures, but that from start to finish, salvation is of the lord, and He will share that with no one!
     
  11. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    Thats how I read it, especially in light of the nutshell of the salvation work in Romans 8:28-30.
     
  12. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    Jerome,

    It was a decision -- a bad one -- made by Ian Murray at Banner of Truth. Here is an article that weighs in on that publishing decision. Fortunately, many other publishers have (and continue) to publish the unabridged version.

    www.prca.org/pamphlets/pamphlet_106.pdf

    I had another link on the subject, but I can't find it at the moment.

    In any case, it's a terrific book and widely considered a classic amongst Christian literature. Here it's free, but you may have to pay $5.00 for the electronic version elsewhere...

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00267SS8Q/?tag=baptis04-20
     
  13. Berean

    Berean
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    Interesting Quote;

    I heard an interesting quote a few days ago that I wish I could take credit for. Simply put it said " Most people love praise and worshiping GOD more then they love GOD,and love theology (the study of GOD) more then they love GOD.
     
  14. Mexdeaf

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    Thanks for providing a link to another valuable resource.
     
  15. markwaltermd

    markwaltermd
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    You are certainly welcome! :)
     
  16. Van

    Van
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    Yet another evasion of scripture. I provided two specific references and you simply make an unreferenced reference to the "Bible" claiming it says the opposite of what it says.

    You say spiritually dead people cannot seek God.

    I provide Matt 13:1-26 which says spiritually dead people do seek God.

    You change the subject to how God saves sinners. But make no statement of exactly how, hence a non-sequitur.

    Calvinism is defended by a constant flow of shuck and jive.
     
  17. mont974x4

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    Matthew 13 claims no such thing. The types of soil are prepared by who? The Farmer. No soil prepares itself. Only one type really receives the seed implanted leading to good roots and fruitful growth. The other types do not receive the seed. The people represented by those three soils are those who don't even get it, those who make an emotional response but no real understanding, and those who make an intellectual response with no heart change.

    Salvation is, start to finish, a work of God.

    Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
    Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
    Rom 8:30 But whom He predestinated, these He also called; and whom He called, those He also justified. And whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 are also great texts for this.

    We see Jesus teaching on this in the Gospel of John. In chapter 10 you should note that the sheep He calls out respond because they already know His voice. These are the sheep the Father already gave to Him. Chapter 6 gives us another example:

    Joh 6:43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves.
    Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
    Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.


    Ezekiel 11:19 and 26:26 tells us it is God who takes away our heart of stone and gives us a new heart. We cannot do this ourselves.
    In Philippians the people are being called to live out who they are in Christ, while being reminded that God is not only enabling them to be obedient but He gives us the desire to be obedient.

    Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
    Php 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


    As to the sorry state of man and how no one seeks God we have Romans 3
    Rom 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
    Rom 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
    Rom 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
    Rom 3:13 "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
    Rom 3:14 "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS";
    Rom 3:15 "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,
    Rom 3:16 DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
    Rom 3:17 AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN."
    Rom 3:18 "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
     
  18. Mexdeaf

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    Never mind I just saw mont's post above- he said the same thing.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Good post! Sums it up quite well doesnt it? :thumbs:
     
  20. Van

    Van
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    Pitchback

    3 or the 4 soils were seeking God. Therefore total spiritual inability is demonstrated false. QED Spiritually dead people seek God through works or faith, as taught in Romans 9:30-33. Strike one.

    Salvation from start to finish is a work of God. So to imply my view differs is a strawman argument. Strike two.

    Romans 8:28-30 teaches biblical election and predestination, not the rewrite by Calvinism.

    The inability to read is a constant with Calvinism's arguments, the sheep that know His voice are "his sheep" i.e. already saved. So yet another non-sequitur.

    The John 6 passage says those exposed to the call of the gospel must "learn" whereas Calvinism claims the spiritually dead are unable to learn.

    Next, we are created a new creation in Christ, not before we are in Christ, so yet another of Calvinism's shoddy argumentation.

    Yes, after we are saved, we become with the aid of our indwelt Holy Spirit the faithful. So yet another non-sequitur.

    And then you demonstrate yet again an inability to read with comprehension. Paul's argument in Romans 3 is that we are all under sin, we have all fallen short of the glory of God. But when are we seeking God? When we are sinning? Nope, so when we are sinning, and we all sin, then no one seeks God.
    The absolute inability of Calvinism to comprehend what the passages they cite over and over is mind-boggling.

    In summary, Total Spiritual inability is demonstrated false by Matthew 13:1-26. Most folks, three of the four soils have sufficient spiritual ability to understand and respond affirmatively to the milk of the gospel. We are not predestined to be placed spiritually in Christ, but rather, after we are in the Beloved, we are predestined to adoption as sons, our bodily resurrection, Romans 8:23.
     
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