A Wasted Vote

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Oct 12, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,287
    Likes Received:
    780
    When asked why they will not vote for a third party candidate, many people will respond by saying something like, "He cannot win." Or, "I don't want to waste my vote." It is true: America has not elected a third party candidate since 1860. Does that automatically mean, however, that every vote cast for one of the two major party candidates is not a wasted vote? I don't think so.

    In the first place, a wasted vote is a vote for someone you know does not represent your own beliefs and principles. A wasted vote is a vote for someone you know will not lead the country in the way it should go. A wasted vote is a vote for the "lesser of two evils." Or, in the case of John McCain and Barack Obama, what we have is a choice between the "evil of two lessers."



    More Here
     
  2. LeBuick

    LeBuick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    11,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this is solid Rev, a person should vote their conscience since that is what they have to live with after the polls close. Voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil no matter how we rationalize it.
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    I agree completely. When you have to 'hold your nose' to vote and violate your own principles it is, in my mind, the ultimate in worldly pragmatism.
     
  4. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,416
    Likes Received:
    72
    No candidate has the "right" to your vote. If you do not feel comfortable voting for either of the major candidates, it is your right to choose to vote for someone else or not to vote at all. Of course, no third-party candidate is actually going to win, but you can voice your opinion anyway.
     
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Excellent post. There is within each of us the ability to vote for the lesser of two evils, but at some point, it crosses the line for each of us. Then, you look back and realize you compromised your beliefs every four years to stay in the Democrat-Republican paradyme.

    However, this election is unique. It sets a new low in standards. It crosses most people's line. Obama is not even worth mentioning, as it is obvious his beliefs and ideas of governing are at odds with most of us.

    What about John McCain? Does a man who has teamed up with Kennedy, Feingold and other liberals over the years to support legislation square with your beliefs? How does McCain's famous campaign line "No pork across my desk, here is my veto pen, I will make them famous" square with taking the 700 bailout and engineering $150 billion in pork for the extra votes? How do his actions on immigration over the years square with the conservative cause? How does being a maverick square with the right wing pandering since he became a Presidential candidate? Is Keating 5 really to be dismissed as not relating to character?

    No need to go on. There are thousands of examples.

    The point is, how is it a wasted vote to stand up for what is right vs voting for pure evil.

    I will tell you two wasted votes in my life. They are the last two I cast for liberal George W Bush.
     
  6. ajg1959

    ajg1959
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,383
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, say my church is having a picnic, and we are voting on whether to have hamburgers or hotdogs. But I dont think Hamburgers or Hotdogs either one are a good choice, I really want steak. I have no doubt that steak is better than hamburgers or hotdogs, but steak is not one of the choices.

    So they ask us to check either hamburger or hotdog on a slip of paper passed out in our bulletin, and put it in the offering plate. Instead of checking hamburger or hotdog, I write in "steak".

    I know that hamburger or hotdog will win because those are the only two choices that can actually win the vote. So, did I waste my vote by writing in steak? Did my vote make a difference? Does my opinion really matter in the big scheme of things if it doesnt really affect the end result? Or did it just make me look like a spoiled brat that cant be pleased.

    Also, since I objected to hamburger and hotdogs both, should I even get to attend the picnic?

    Not saying that you are wrong Rev, its just that I would have to get past this way of thinking before I could vote third party. If there were 3 partys that had a chance of winning then I would see it different.

    But, anyway, you have to do what you feel is right, not based on what anyone else thinks.
    AJ
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    To use your analogy, AJ, and a good one it is, take it further and let's say that your church voting is divided into 50 groups and each group gets one vote on hamburgers or hot dogs based on the how the majority of each group voted. Let's say in the group you are in you already know that the majority will vote for hot dogs. Therefore, if you want steak but it won't win and if it came down to hot dogs or hamburgers you prefer hamburgers but that can't win in your group, then writing in steak won't have any impact on which food your church ultimately chooses.

    In a competitive state your analogy works. However, most states are not competitive and voting for a minor party or independent candidate in those states does not affect the outcome at all.
     
  8. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    218
    I propose that in all Federal elections, the the bottom line of the ballot be "NONE OF THE ABOVE"
     
  9. JustChristian

    JustChristian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    3,833
    Likes Received:
    0

    Is this really the spirit of Democracy? I suppose going to the polls and voting "None of the Above" is being than not voting at all but not much. Why bother. Is this why we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan to install a government in which their citizens can go to the polls and vote "None of the Above?"

    I suppose all that talk about wanting to introduce a democracy in these countries was just that, talk.
     
  10. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, but I don't consider votes wasted which help keep Al Gore and John Kerry from becoming President.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,085
    Likes Received:
    218
    Why vote None of the above, because, if NOTA recieves the most votes, than the parties must put up a different candidate! NOTA is democracy at its best!!
     
  12. Analgesic

    Analgesic
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's an important difference, AJ, in that this lunch menu of the church is open to any and all suggestions. You're not simply writing-in "steak", you have the opportunity to promote the alternative of steak to the entire congregation for years in advance.
     
  13. Petra-O IX

    Petra-O IX
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good thread Rev:thumbs:
    This is a topic that does need to be discussed.
    My opinion is that a vote is your voice, it may only be one voice but it is your voice. The ultimate outcome of this presidential campaign may not change but because you have casted a ballot that reflect your true convictions it may change the outcome of future elections. Change.....real change has to start somewhere and it starts with us voting our convictions. The Christian vote is important in this election and we can have a strong voice only if we vote our convictions. We do have more than the usual two choices but if we stay in the mindset that we are obligated to hold our nose and vote for the lesser of two evils then we allow politicans to run our lives and they will continue to do what is best for themselves and special intrest groups and as usual we will have to take a back seat and foot all the bills.
     
  14. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    I feel the same way.

    In addition, it is IMPOSSIBLE to rate a presidency during, or immediately after their term. Just look at Clinton. He destroyed the housing market in 1999 by demanding banks lend to people with bad credit and who couldn't afford housing...yet in 2008 (9 years after Clinton's blunder) Bush is getting the blame, and republicans are being blamed for the bailout that should not have ever occured if Clinton didn't screw it all up.
     
    #14 webdog, Oct 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2008
  15. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    The election is not open to anyone but Obama or McCain. In actuallity it is...but in reality it isn't. A vote for anyone besides either is a wasted vote, IMO, because nobody besides those two men will be president. AJ has nailed it in his analogy, and anyone who is voting to feel good about their selection is doing this country a disservice. It's not about us, folks. It's about what's best for this country, and even though Baldwin may in effect be the "best" choice, he is in reality no choice at all to be POTUS.
     
  16. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    The more who vote third party, the more they will notice us, poke fun at us, and therefore get more to vote third party......


    I hate the twists of facts to make Palin look like a power hungry madwoman, but I can't vote for McCain. The man has no fight left in him. I may have voted for Palin, her "shake things up" credentials seem fine. But I will not be part of the mechanism that puts either one of these guys in.
     
  17. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...but in reality you will be.
     
  18. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,240
    Likes Received:
    2
    In reality, I'll be putting a U.N. capitulant, so eager to show they wanna work with everyone that they can't be pinned down on one stance.

    We got problems. We got gang members in our cities charging honest businesses protection money, and the cities spend their tax $$ banning transfat. We got W. Bush letting millions of illegal dope dealers into our country, while he deports Ginger Baker, & jails our own border guards. We got two guys promising not to end the "Patriot Act", and expand the military into some named, and some unnamed countries, and promising to give everyone health care, and promising to help the U.N. fight global climate change, and global poverty. And they both tell me I won't pay a penny more in taxes.

    I won't be putting either in. I'm trying, against everyone else who says they think like me, to put someone else in.
     
  19. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Even if the vote for a minor party or independent candidate takes place in a non-competitive state where one of the major party candidates is a cinch to win it?
     
  20. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    In reality, either one or the other will be in, and a vote for a third party is allowing someone else to determine who it will be. Baldwin has about as much chance as Mickey Mouse (who's written in every time the election rolls around)
    Who's beter for the USA, McCain or Obama? THAT is the big picture we should be focusing on as Americans, and Christians at that.
     

Share This Page

Loading...