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A weighty issue

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Jan 5, 2009.

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  1. Yes, he must meet standards of the US Army

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. Yes, but approved by his doctor

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. As long as he is not extreme in his appearance

    6 vote(s)
    21.4%
  4. Depends on special conditions

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. No standard should be required

    17 vote(s)
    60.7%
  6. Not sure

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  7. Other answer

    2 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I was joking about Spugeon too. He has some good writings. As far as judging you I wouldn't. Hey I'm southern Baptist and about 62.98765409812% of SB pastors are over weight. I get bored with being serious all the time so I sometimes fool around posting something I find funny. But if you want me to judge you I'll be glad to oblige you I am all things to all peoples....thing.
     
  2. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Apparently you believe it is alright for christians to be alcoholic drug users who have sex with anyone and everyone, and we can still call them christians the Holy Spirit does nothing to change someone once saved, they can continue for years or a lifetime in their same old lifestyle, never changing to reflect Jesus. Because this is what you've been saying. You also from this post seem to be saying it's alright to make fun of people.
     
    #42 donnA, Jan 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2009
  3. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    I am saying that it's not ok to pick and choose to whom you will show mercy. You struggle with your weight, so you will show mercy to those with weight issues, even if they are in that state because of their own gluttony. You will not, however, show mercy to someone who cannot kick a habit.

    Go ahead and pick and choose, Donna. I choose mercy. Some day I may need the same mercy returned.
     
  4. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    I'm just curious as to what biblical principle is used to determine who is or is not 'over weight'.

    I case some of you didn't know the 'weight' issue is a cultural viewpoint not a biblical one. Oh, and if someone is actually gonna 'try' to use 'gluttony'. Then I would suggest a good study of what the term actaully means and not the typical 'illistration' used to help get the point across. Actaully it isn't even properly given by most pastors anymore.



    -- for those who don't know 'gluttony' in scripture does not mean and is not synonamous with being over wieght --
     
    #44 Allan, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2009
  5. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    That is very true. I have seen very thin people eat half of the buffet. I have also seen very large people eat very little.

    Points from the other posts. Yes, gluttony is a sin. And yes, so is alcohol and drug abuse, and all sorts of sexual sins. While not putting sins on a pedestal, as this is one of my pet peeves, gluttony in general does not destroy families, lives, and jobs. Also, in my mind there is a big difference between making jokes about large people and jokes about those addicted to drugs and alcohol. Since I am overweight myself, the jokes do not bother me, and can see the humor in them.
     
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    I would probably have issues if we were considering a pastor:

    -who physically could not carry out his duties because of his weight. But that's a health issue. I would say the same if they were unable to because of a back injury or such.
    -who constantly made light of the weight issue. I'm not talking about having a sense of humor, but one who constantly brags about being fat. Today, I think there's not much of this anymore, but there is some. I would see that as unhealthy...as well as discomforting to many...as well as (if the problem is gluttony) making light of a real issue.
    -who constantly berates or belittles overweight people. This person has issues, IMO, and likely shouldn't be considered.

    Personal note: 5 years ago, I weighed nearly 240 (too much for a 5-8 1/2 frame). I now weigh 167. It's tough keeping it off, and I have a head start (a high metabolism). So I empathize very much with those who struggle.
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I've been joking up to this point on this thread but here are my serious views of this issue.

    First the are many reasons for the appearance of being overweight and being overweight not all of them are due to laziness or gluttony. Just like there are a lot of reasons why people have red noses. Just because you have a red nose doesn't mean you're an Alchoholic. It can allude to it but its not necissarily so. there are so many body types that to judge a person by their weight is, in my opinion wrong. However, I do think that if their is a weight issue a congregation of people may want to look for other warning signs of inappropiate behavior such as gluttony or laziness. But those being absent I don't think you should prevent a man from becoming a pastor. It may be an indicator for an intemperate lifestyle then it may not. If the facts don't back up an intemperate lifestyle then drop the issue. I think our society has to many hangups about weight. I find that a lot of problem with weight in this country is our food supply is tainted with steroids which affect us. I do know this. I lived oversees for many years and my eating wasn't curbed there and I didn't gain weight. After Returning to the states I put on lbs within a few months and had to work out more aggressively. So there are issues we don't even know of. BTW all the supermodels are anarexic. They don't look healthy. 500 years ago during the Reformation paintings of venus (beautiful goddess) were of fair plump women with not so much on top (trying to avoid ludeness). That was the ideal of beauty. Today people thing dark anarexic (where you can see bones) women with plastic tops that are disproportionate to their bodies is beauty. I like watching young children before they are corrupted by their associates. They accept other children no matter what their body types are. They may ask questions but there is no judging and belittling. Until they start school. I think we should have that mind set.
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Prov. 23:20-21, "Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, or with gluttonous eaters of meat; for the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with rags."

    The glutton is selfish. Physically he cannot perform as well as one who is physically fit. It takes more energy to do anything, than if he were physically fit. One who eats too much cannot move as easily and is often tired. He is unable to breathe as well and tired easily. They cannot physically give themselves as well to the physical part of ministry because he is easily tired and hurts due to joint pain and the load on their body. One who is tired cannot give himself to his wife and children like he could if he had more energy. It affects his well being as well as their relationship with people because he does not have the same attitude. People who are overweight have more medical problems. Being overweight is expensive because it costs their family more money due to increased medical problems and the direct cost of too much food which could be given to others who do not have much.

    I was shocked when I started pastoring thinking that my insurance would be less because I am a Christian, but instead my insurance went way up. I asked about why that was the case. The insurance person told me that a lot of people in pastoral work are not physically fit and many seek out mental health. When I quit pastoring my insurance went down.
     
    #48 gb93433, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2009
  9. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Psalms 22:29
    “All [they that be] fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.”
     
  10. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Actually this is untrue.
    The other thread was about the life long habititual drug, alochol use with illicit sexual relationships. I do not see similarities between living like that and making fun of people. Please explain. You did not see me say that over eating wasn't a sin, you saw me say it isn't right to make fun of people.
    it has a lot to do with actually seeing soemthing wrong with behavior and seeking to change, a change which is brought about by the indwelling Holy Spirit, unless you think He is powerless against us and our own desires.
     
    #50 donnA, Jan 8, 2009
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  11. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    There is no biblical standard for what over weight is. Yet we try to enforce it on others. And as we see on this board we want to over look people who actually do violate scripture with their lives, such as drugs, alochol, and illicit sexual relationshsips outside fo marriage.(see previous posts, and the other thread).
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    thus the reason for one option in the poll "Yes, but approved by his doctor"
    I thought is was interesting that no one voted that option.

    Should we expand a bit and say that a prospective pastor should pass a physicial?
     
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Exactly. Not over weight but one who takes for himself leaving others with nothing or almost nothing as long as he has all he desires. Being 'gluttonous' is analogous to that of Greed. It is the same aspect with a drunk. Filling their own desires to the point that it takes control of them and it becomes what they are know for (no matter what the sin is)


    This is silly. As a former martial artist and amature body builder I can tell you these are some of the same conditions many of them had. It is not only centered on the over weight. Secondly you are not discribing an over weight person (according to America's standard) but someone who is extremely obese and as such in need of medical attention. I have never met a person that is considered over wieght (in many peoples pious opinions) remotely to have your 'ascribed' symptoms. And I'm speaking of those about 100lbs over the norm. And I know, I am one. Yet my doctor says I am as healthy as a person who works out (with the exception of the visable size issue).

    This is not true but speculation at best. Actually it only hinders his relationship with those who are either self-righteous or judgmental. But then again you can have that if you are to skinny, a work out fanatic, over dresser, ect..

    Again untrue statistical non-sense.
    Those who are under weight actaully have as many and more problems than over weight people do. Tobacco users and drinkers have just as many issues.

    The issue isn't so much size or weight as it is inactivity.


    Please, now your getting into pure biased non-sense.
    You are ascribing what a small portion might do to the whole and that is ludicrus at best. Not to mention there are just as many 'skinny' people who eat 2 to 3 times more than is technically necessary who could be giving their food to others as well.

    Funny, my insurance actaully went down as a Pastor. (in both AR. and SD)
     
    #53 Allan, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2009
  14. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    Donna, I have come away from this discussion with a deeper understanding of debating with you. I shall try to refrain in the future, seeing that it is pointless.

    No where have I said that illicit sins should be excused. You put that on me, but I didn't say that. I do see, however, that you apparently have pet sins to harp on.

    You can also remove what you said about me making fun because I don't see where I did, except the not-so-funny pun. As I said, I lost over 80lbs myself. This is something I struggle with daily. You can choose to take yours seriously and read a mocking tone from others, but some of us, who also struggle, try to find humor in things. There was no mocking. Perhaps you have taken this thread too personally.

    I choose to show mercy. I choose to not judge the salvation of another. I choose to tell the whole world about Christ and let Him do the work that only he can do. I'm at peace with this choice, as I feel it is scriptural.

    I'm done debating with you (of course, there may come a point in time when I can no longer bite my tongue, but I will try to keep from debating you. It makes my head sore from banging it on the keyboard). I'll see you in "What's for dinner".
     
  15. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    And, I agree with Allan. I eat far less than my skinny husband, but I'm not stick thin.

    I wonder how much of weight is gluttony and how much is laziness... I'll have to think on that one a while.
     
  16. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    1200 calories a day and smaller plates does it for me. A good visit to a dietician does wonders and will help keep a balance on what to eat.

    Then there is genetics. We do tend to follow our family history.

    I lost 90 pounds in one month owing to a well-controlled diabetes going out-of-control and suffering a consequent stroke. I still have my large frame, but I need stuffing to look fatter. Some diabetics go the other way and have a really tough time with weight gain. So, it is a hard call to point at fatness..all ye Job counsellors, and no one in particular...But we do need to bite our tongues just a little in this department.

    I still say when a preacher's belly overhangs his sermon notes on pulpit, it might be time to consider some sort of action,,,,,,,or activity.

    Cheers,

    Jim,

    PS. I can take a little fat from someone....free.
     
  17. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    I'm always willing to give a fat offering. LOL!

    90lbs in one month is terrible! I'm sorry you went through all that!

    My 80+lbs came off in about a year or so.

    If genetics play any part, I'm destined to have an over-sized nose and man legs.
     
  18. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    you gave excuses, approval why it was ok for some to make fun of other people, having a good laugh at their expense.
    If you can't debate then stay out of the debate sections of the board.
     
    #58 donnA, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2009
  19. Spinach

    Spinach New Member

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    If you'll kindly show me where/how I've done that, I will open-mindedly take a look at it.
     
  20. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Please, someone, show me “one verse of Scripture”, that says anything at all negative about being overweight.

    At any other time in human history, being overweight was considered being healthy.

    It is only in these deceptive times, that we are being brainwashed into thinking that “thin is in”.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Now when Eli fell off his chair, and broke his neck, it was because he was old and overweight, but God never told him to go on a diet.
     
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