"A works-based faith makes God a debtor to those who work

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by annsni, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. annsni

    annsni
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    http://www.boomerinthepew.com/2009/10/a-works-based-faith-makes-god-a-debtor-to-those-who-work.html

    Romans 4:4-8 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
    7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
    and whose sins are covered;
    8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."


    Since the beginning of time, a social contract has existed between the worker, and the man who contracted the worker. The worker works, and then is paid. Once the worker works, then the owner is in debt to the worker until he is paid his due.

    In other words, until the worker is paid, he can say, "you owe me".

    Those who would presume that any amount of works can brings about, or add to, their salvation would put God in the same contractual arrangement.

    The works oriented man might work a day in the soup kitchen, believing that he is working toward his salvation. Once this day's work is accomplished then what?

    Are we to say to God, "you owe me?"

    If this were the case then the opposite would then also be true. If we perform bad deeds, which we all do every day, then might God say to us: "you owe me?"

    It is absolutely impossible to work our way to God with our works. It is absolutely impossible for us to obtain the perfection and holiness required.

    No my friend, salvation is obtained completely by grace (unmerited favor) through faith. It is the free gift of God to those who truly believe.

    Our works are evidence (fruit) of our faith, our works are a sacrifice, and a sweet aroma in the nostrils of God.

    To think any other way is to put God in our debt, and a great error of thinking.
     
  2. Tom Butler

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    And it's not just a question of doing enough good works. It's also a question of not sinning, of keeping the law perfectly.

    Besides, if we could do enough good works to offset our bad works, then Jesus' death on the cross was unnecessary.
     
  3. Carico

    Carico
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    Amen. :thumbs:
     
  4. Winman

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    I am not entirely sure what you are getting at by posting this article, but a person choosing to believe on Christ is not a work.

    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    To believe on Jesus means to cease from trying to earn your way to heaven through works, and depend completely upon the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as one's only way to heaven.
     
  5. Johnv

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    Absolutely! :applause: Right on the money!!
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Show me your works and I will show you your faith. If your faith produces no works you have no real faith in Christ.
     
  7. donnA

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    this is works after salvation, salvation produces the desire to work and serve God.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    I agree. If there are no works, even if a person says they have accepted Christ as their savior then I would tend to doubt that they really accepted. At best if may be a lack of understanding what Christ calls us to in following his will.
     
  9. Carico

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    So how do you get an atheist to "choose" to believe in Christ when atheists think that God is as imaginary as the flying spaghetti monster? Perhaps those who "choose" to believe in Christ are more righteous than atheists. In that case, why do the "righteous" need saving?:confused:
     
  10. annsni

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    Yep I agree with you! But there are some who say that we must do work in order to be saved instead of understanding that the work that we do is a fruit of being saved. :) I like the way the title puts it. I never thought of it quite in that way. Great stuff.
     
  11. Amy.G

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    But the Bible says that they DO know. They just refuse to give God the glory. God doesn't believe in atheists.

    Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
     
  12. Carico

    Carico
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    No, it says they suppress the truth by their wickedness (hardened hearts). That means that in their conscious minds, they truly do not believe in God, although many of them want to as they've told me. Atheists don't "Choose" to go to hell because they can't wait to spend eternity in torment. They are being deceived by Satan that God does not exist.

    It's the same with the Muslims; they truly believe that allah is God because they are being deceived by Satan.

    Verse 24 of that passages explains that "God gave them over..." In other words, as 2 Corinthians 4;4 explains, God is allowing Satan to "blind the eyes of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

    People are thus either ruled by Satan or the Holy Spirit and only the Holy Spirit has the power to break Satan's deceptions in us.:)
     
  13. Amy.G

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    Do you have problems with reading?????

    Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.



    It says they KNEW God, yet you say no, they didn't. Don't you believe the scriptures?
     
  14. Carico

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    I believe them because I know that there are many more words in that passage besides the one you have quoted. God is explaining why he is allowing Satan to blind their eyes.

    If you believed the rest of that passage, then you would know why atheists don't believe in God. But since you don't and you call me arrogant because I do believe that whole passage and the rest of scripture for that matter, then further conversation with you will be destructive.
     
  15. Amy.G

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    Yet you are denying what the scripture says. They "KNEW" God.

    Atheists KNOW there is a God, the creator. But they refuse to give Him glory. They exercise their free will and reject the authority of God. That is why their hearts are "darkened".


    Further conversation with me will be destructive? I promise I won't hurt you! :laugh:
     
  16. Carico

    Carico
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    Again, why do you think they refuse to? 2 Corinthians 4:4 tells us why; "for the god of this age is blinding the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."

    So which words do you have a problem understanding? the word "blinding"? or how about the word "cannot see"? Or maybe you just plain don't believe them.

    Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?" So why do you think he said that, Amy?:confused:
     
  17. annsni

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    So in other words, man is not guilty for his unbelief yet God punishes them anyway? It's Satan's fault that they don't believe in God - yet they face eternal punishment for it?
     
  18. Carico

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    Romans 11:32, "For God bound all men over to disobedience so he can have mercy on them all."

    God has to humble man so that man won't believe he's equal to God. So he allows Satan to deceive us so that we'll turn only to God personally for salvation. God has complete control over Satan. There isn't one thing that Satan is doing that God is not allowing. God can bind Satan in an instant but he doesn't so that man will turn to God.

    that's why only the Holy Spirit can break Satan's deceptions. If man could do this all by himself then man wouldn't need God for a thing.

    But unfortunately, many people say; " I don't need God, I can be righteous all by myself." That's actually secular humanism. If man could choose not to sin, then Christ died for nothing.
     
    #18 Carico, Oct 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2009

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