Abbreviated Word Study, G2564, Kaleo

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Van, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Van

    Van
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    The Greek verb is usually translated as "call" and means:
    1) to speak an invitation, i.e. beckon,
    2) to name something, i.e. to call Peter the rock,
    3) to appeal to someone, i.e. call upon the name of the Lord,
    4) or metaphorically to be one who responded, i.e. "the called."​

    In this abbreviated study, let's just consider how Peter used our word, and according translate it using a different English word for each of its intended meanings.

    1 Peter 1:15, "but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior"

    Here the intended meaning is clearly an invitation or command for us to do something, so to capture both nuances, let's use "instructed."

    1 Peter 2:9, "But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;"

    Here the idea goes beyond "instructed" and refers to those who responded or whose response to the call was accepted by God, who then transferred spiritually the person from the realm of darkness into His marvelous light. Let's translate this meaning as "transferred."

    1 Peter 2:21, "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,

    Here the intended meaning again is "transferred into Christ" for this purpose, you are to follow His example and partake of suffering for the sake of His ministry.

    1 Peter 3:6, "just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear."

    Here the idea is Sarah considered Abraham her boss, i.e. lord, and honored his with this title. Thus "considering" fits the meaning.

    1 Peter 3:9, "not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing."

    Here again the idea is to be spiritually "transferred into Christ."

    1 Peter 5:10, "After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.

    And yet again, the intended meaning is "transferred."

    2 Peter 1:3, "seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.

    And lastly, the intended meaning is "transferred us into Christ"
     
    #1 Van, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2014
  2. Rippon

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    Let's not. The word 'instructed" has absolutely nothing to do with the passage. You need to do yourself a favor and study Romans 8:28-30 to be enlightened.
    I'll give you some credit here. The phrase "called you out of" is used in nearly all translations and we should stick with that. But this verse is related to Col. 1:13 where it says the Father has "rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son." He "brought us" or "transferred us" from darkness into His light.
    No, the intended meaning remains "called for this purpose." They have already been transferred from the domain of darkness and brought into His wonderful light (2:9). They are to endure suffering because it is commendable before God. (See 1:6,7).

    The idea is she actually called him lord or master --she didn't merely consider the theme and her place of subjection.
    Wrong again. What you need to do is study the usages of how the word "called" is used in Scripture. It will open your eyes.
    Not so. He has called us, putting it in the past tense but comforting His chosen ones with the fact that though they will suffer a bit down here --their destination is glory. It's like in Romans 8:30, where Paul puts our glorification in the past tense though it will be still future in application.
    You are mistaken. As the NET note affirms, we are called, not just invited. Calling takes place at the moment of conversion while election takes place in eternity past.

    You take undue liberties in "translating" Scripture. It is not your prerogative to bend, fold, spin and otherwise manipulate the Word of God to say what your agenda proposes.
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    If a person is "called...into" something, the idea is not an invitation or summons, or command, but rather the result, a change in location. Thus to be called into His marvelous light refers to being transferred.

    And, not to put too fine a point on it, but saints who have been set apart in Christ, have been called into Christ, or more clearly transferred into Christ. And we are put in Christ for a purpose which includes partaking of the suffering of Christ.

    Those "called" into Christ have received blessings and will receive (inherit) additional blessings when Christ returns.

    1 Peter 5:10 says we were "called into His eternal glory" so again, the idea is not the invitation but the result of God transferring those whose faith He credits as righteousness. Same idea as John 3:16 where when God credits our "belief" we are said to believe into Him.

    As for 2 Peter 1:3, "instructed" rather than transferred may indeed come the closest to God's intended message.
     
  4. Rippon

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    Things For You To Consider

    It is "usually translated as 'call" for a reason --it's the best English choice. You seek to evacuate it of all meaning.

    But you have not used any of those four meanings in your renderings. Why have a source to buttress your case if you do not even use its material to substantiate anything?

    You want to use "instructed" in 1 Peter 1:15 and 2 Peter 1:3 for reasons that have no relation to any of the four meanings you have sourced.

    The word "transferred" is not on your list of four meanings. Yet you seek to impose it on the text in 1 peter 2:9 and 1 Peter 5:10.

    The word "considering" is not found in your four listed meanings, but you use it anyway in 1 Peter 3:6.

    Formerly you had "transferred us into Christ" for 2 Peter 1:3. Now you claim that "God's intended message" is "instructed" why the change? Both "transferred us into Christ" and "instructed" are quite different from one another. And both submissions are not in any proximity to "called into His eternal glory." How do you account for your fickleness?

    You seem to make up things as you go. There is no rhyme or reason for your selections. Does it ever cause you to pause when over 90% of your selections in these "word studies" are not found in any English translation? Why do you, with no training, have such confidence that you have discovered "God's fully intended message" when no legitimate translator would ever make that claim?
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    To be "called into" something, i.e. Christ or His Kingdom, is the #4 meaning, the metaphoric use. To be "called into" is to be "transferred into" and can be found in several verses, for example 1 Peter 2:9.

    Folks, remember that Mr. Rippon seems not to even be able to do word studies, so his fault finding is dubious.
     
  6. Van

    Van
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    2 Peter 1:3, "seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. As indicated in post #3, this verse could be translated with more clarity as "...who instructed us by His own glory and excellence."

    Word studies result in considering alternate ideas and upon reflection coming to the one or ones thought most probable. Sometimes the NASB is spot on, or the NIV or NET or NKJV. To arrive at which of the range of meanings fits best in context is not cut and dried. That is why the translations are frequently all over the map.

    Bible study allows us to dig into God's word and come to a deeper and more life altering understanding.
     
  7. Rippon

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    No, #4, which you gave in your OP was "to be one who responded, i.e. 'the called' "
    Your preference of "transferred into" is not found in any translation for any verse in the New Testament. Prove me wrong if you are able.
     
    #7 Rippon, Oct 15, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  8. Rippon

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    You did not cite any reason whatsoever in post 3.

    Your word choice of "instructed" for 2 Peter 1:3 is not found in any Bible translation in existence. Your "choices" are so far out of bounds it is crazy. Your batting average is .10 --which means --You're out!
    It's all in your mind. Your "translations" are indeed all over the map though. Your choices are novel.

    If what meaning "fits best in context is not cut and dried" then there is no "fully God-intended rendering." Think about it.
    How has your life been altered?
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    More hate mail from the derailer:

    How has your life been altered = how can I change the subject and derail the thread.

    You did not cite a reason in post #3 = how can ignore the reason given in post #6.

    It is all in your mind = denial that modern translations are all over the map translating the same Greek word meaning differently, while translating different Greek word meanings using the same English word or phrase. For example 6 to 8 different Greek words are all translated into one English word, i.e. sin.
     
  10. Van

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    If we consider the four meanings found in scripture for the Greek word kaleo, lets consider them one at a time.

    1) Invite, beckon, command could be translated "instructed" to create a different translation choice than "call."

    2) To name something fits the modern usage of to call something, so when used in this manner, the translation choice of "call" works.

    3) To appeal to someone, i.e. to call on their name, refers to trusting in what they know about the person, whether trusting in the promises, or trusting that there is no other God, or trusting in the power of God. And this appeal is not a lip service appeal, but a whole-hearted conviction and reliance upon the name (promises and attributes) of God, i.e. Jesus. Thus "call" in this usage could be translated or understood to mean "rely whole-heartedly" on the "attributes and promises" of God.
    A)Then you rely wholeheartedly on the attributes and promises of your god, and I will rely whole-heartedly on the attributes and promises of Yahweh, and the God who answers by fire, He is God.” And all the people said, “That is a good idea.”

    B) “For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may rely whole-heartedly on the attributes and promises of Yahweh, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.

    C) for “Whoever will rely whole-heartedly on the attributes and promises of the Lord will be saved.”

    D) To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place rely whole-heartedly on the attributes and promises of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:​

    4) If a person is "called...into" something, the idea is not an invitation or summons, or command, but rather the result, a change in location. Thus to be called into His marvelous light refers to being transferred. Just one more example of this, lets return to 1 Corinthians 1:2:
    To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:​
    Here we see those who have been sanctified - set apart in Christ Jesus, transferred saints, with all who in every place rely whole-heartedly on the attributes and promises of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
     
    #10 Van, Oct 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2014
  11. Rippon

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    You gave absolutely no reason for your novel word choice in posts 3 and 6. You have yet to defend your choice which no existing translation has rendered it.
     
  12. Rippon

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    How have your "word studies" altered your life?
     
  13. Rippon

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    Why is "instructed" a better word choice? Just to make it different than using the word "call" --which every other English translation has it?

    Don't beat around the bush --translate the verse the way you want it. Let's see it.
     
  14. Van

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    Lets consider the banality of the argument, no other translation uses that choice. Thus when a new translation comes out and differs from all the previous translation choices, the choices are wrong and an affront to all the translators that chose differently. Really :) Tell that to the NKJV folks who differed from the KJV, or the ESV folks who differed from the RSV, or the novel renderings in the HCSB or NET.

    If a word has a range of meanings, such as Kaleo, in order to provide concordance with each meaning as transparently as possible, we should seek to render each meaning with a different English word or phrase. On the other hand, we should seek to render each meaning with the same word or phrase, in various tenses, so the underlying text shines through.

    Kaleo can mean to invite or command, thus instruct conveys the message as well as "call" but avoids translating different word meanings using the same English word, thus missing the goals of fidelity and clarity.
     
    #14 Van, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2014
  15. Rippon

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    You are barking up the wrong tree. All English translations (not counting The Message, CottonPatch and other silly ones) use the key word "call" or some form of it in many passages. It is an important word and full of weighty theological significance. Your choices are off the charts and prove to be agenda-driven.
     
  16. Van

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    The English word "call" has no more theological significance than any other word. But the Greek "kaleo" conveys key theological truth. Understanding the range of meanings is paramount. To translate all four differing meanings using the same English word is without merit.

    Questions for the objective reader: Is kaleo translated as "invited?" Yes Matthew 22:3.
    Is kaleo translated as "give?" Yes Luke 1:13. (NASB)
    Is kaleo translated as "name given?" Yes Luke 2:21(NASB)
    Is kaleo translated as "summoned?" Yes Acts 4:18 (NASB)
    Is kaleo translated as "name?" Yes, Acts 7:58 (NASB)
    Is kaleo translated as "dedicated?" Yes Luke 2:23 (HCSB)
    Is kaleo translated as "traced?" Yes Romans 9:7 (HCSB)
    Is kaleo translated as "received?" Yes Ephesians 4:1 (HCSB)
    Is kaleo translated as "bid?" Yes Matthew 22:9 (KJV)

    Now about the good old NIV? Lets see: (1) host; (2) known as; (3) reckoned; (4) consecrated; (5) guests; (6) said to be; and (7) tell.

    If the named modern translations (plus the KJV) render kaleo 15 ways other than call, it seems other choices are well accepted. Notice that the 7 listed choices of the NIV are not found in the other translations, so just because a translation choice is not found in other translation, does not mean the choice is an affront to other translators.

    So "invited or instructed," "rely wholeheartedly," "called or named" and "transferred," present a similar range of translation choices as the NASB, HCSB, and NIV. But they provide more concordance, more clarity, more fidelity, and more transparency that the other translations. Might other choices be better in some applications? Probably. The result of study is to consider the actual meaning intended when you come across the English words sometimes translating kaleo.
    Does a "holy calling" convey the same idea as a holy vocation, holy ministry, holy field of endeavor, etc. And what is it? Something special and individually constructed just for you, or does it refer to our job as ambassadors for Christ?

    Just because the path is rocky, and we sometimes slip, stumble and fall, does not mean we should not continue to study to show ourselves approved.
     
    #16 Van, Oct 21, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2014
  17. Rippon

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    The whole of post 16 has not addressed the above.
     
  18. Rippon

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    It is mighty important to all children of God. Without the calling of God no one would be saved. That qualifies it to be a very significant theological word.


    The NIV also has it rendered that way.
    NIV :call.
    NIV : name.
    NIV : called.
    You made a mistake here. Youmust have confused it with another reference.
    NIV : consecrated.
    NIV : be reckoned.
    NIV : calling.
    NIV : invite.
    Your list is all screwed up. I gave the correct renderings of the NIV above.

    Your "choices" are not present in any English translation.
    Only in your mind. What feeds your ego so much to think your are a master translator? You modestly claim that your renderings provide more concordance, fidelity and transparency than that of any other translation. It's such a pity that you haven't been called to join any translatyion team. But You have received no endorsements for your idiosyncratic selections --have you? ;-)
     
  19. Rippon

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    Let's take a look at some references in just the book of Romans when it comes to the usage of the word call and its various forms.

    1:6 : who are called to belong to Jesus Christ
    [All translations have called or calling.]

    1:7 : called to be his holy people
    [All translations have called.]

    8:28 : called according to his purpose
    [All translations have called.]

    8:30 : he also called; those he also called.
    [All translation use the word called.]

    9:24 : even us, whom he also called.
    [Except for the NLT and YLT, all other versions use called.]

    9:25 : I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her my 'loved one'
    [All translations use the word call.]

    9:26 : called children of the living God.
    [All translations render it as called.]

    10:12 : richly blesses all who call on him.
    [All translations have call except for YLT which has calling.]

    10:13 : Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
    [All translations use either call or calls.]

    10:14 : How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?
    [All versions use the word call here.]

    11:29 : for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
    [All versions use some for of call whether that or calls, calling, or callings.]
    ______________________________________________________________
    It is a novelty to come up with another word than some form of the word call in all the above references. And that principle applies to the rest of the New Testament usages dealing with salvation.
     
  20. Van

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    1) Acts 7:58 " When they had (A)driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and (B)the witnesses (C)laid aside their robes at the feet of (D)a young man named Saul. (NASB)

    2) Now Mr. Rippon claims the NIV does not translate kaleo as indicated. :) Mr. Rippon seems to think I provided the verses for the novel NIV renderings. Since he apparently cannot even do a word search, let alone a study, he makes these bogus assertions.

    3) The 7 listed NIV choices are not in any English translation either. What is good for the goose is ....
     

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