Abortion & the Media II

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Aaron, Dec 11, 2001.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron
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    I just read through the posts on this topic, Abortion Doctor Murders and the Media, but it's closed now, so I think I'll reply here.

    I was glad to see someone near the close of the thread to actually treat abortion as if it was the actual killing of a human being, but that's beside the point.

    How many abortion doctors have been shot since Roe vs Wade? You can count them on one hand.

    How many infants have been slaughtered since 1973?

    See the disparity?

    There is no rash of abortionist slaying. It doesn't even deserve a mention from the pulpit, and certainly does not deserve equal time in the discussion of abortion.

    However, how much time should we allow politics to resolve the issue? How long do we wait before employing the sad, last resort of violence to stop abortion, and are we focusing on the wrong enemy?

    The Declaration of Independence states: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What are your thoughts?

    [ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    However, how much time should we allow politics to resolve the issue? How long do we wait before employing the sad, last resort of violence to stop abortion, and are we focusing on the wrong enemy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Rev. 6:9-11 (ESV)
    When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. [10] They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" [11] Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

    Although I don't think we can make the case of murdered infants being martyrs for the faith, I do think we can rely on God's perfect timing and judgment upon this and all great atrocities.
     
  3. JAMES2

    JAMES2
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    Aaron:
    Are you REALLY advocating the over throw of the government because this country has made child sacrifice legal? Are you REALLY advocating the murder of the "doctors" who kill the unborn?

    I mean I understand your feelings about the horror of abortion, but the END DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS. The only way that abortion is going to stop is when the massive brain-washing of the young girls stop. So why stop at abortion doctors. What about the teachers that teach young girls in the schools that abortion is, as one of these radical, looney tune feminists organizations said, nothing but removing a disease. What about all the pro-death politicians? Where would it stop?

    Seriously, to advocate the murder of people you disagree with is pretty disordered, don't you think? To say nothing of being a totally anti-christian, immoral action itself. Makes no difference what the Declaration of Indepencence says. That is a statement composed by man, not God. We are NOT to take the law into our own hands, according to Romans 13. We are to obey the laws of God, not man. I find no support in scripture, the gospels, or the teachings of Jesus, to justify murder, and that is exactly what that would be.

    You will never convince someone who is not a born again christian that child-sacrifice (abortion) is a gross, disgusting, unthinking, immoral act. As long as people remain in the kingdom of darkness (the world) without God, being the captin of their souls, expressing their individual "freedom", doing their own thing, being self-centered, selfish, having no natural affection, believing the lies of their secular, lost teachers, abortion will continue.

    All the girls and all the people that teach them that child-sacrifice is "the right to my body," my "reproductive right," my "right to terminate my baby," a blob of tissue, and all the other evasions they use to avoid the fact that they are killing a baby, the blasphemous massacre of God's creatures will continue.
    My solution is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and pray for the Holy Spirit to convict these lost individuals of their very serious position, which is a enemy of God, depraved, and totally lost, without all hope, unless they, by God's grace, are regenerated, and justified by faith and brought into the kingdom of light instead of floundering around in their self-centered, lost state, and ending up in hell.

    Is that harsh? Yup, sure is. That's why it is important to preach the gospel to these people instead of going around murdering people.

    Now, I'm not saying that a girl that has an abortion sends herself to hell. That would be getting into the whole issue of salvation by works. What I am saying is that all those involved in child-sacrifice need to be brought to repentance, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, be regenerated and yanked out of the kingdom of darkness. That is their only hope and not until then will abortion stop.
    I really feel that all the "teachers" that brainwash these girls are every bit as guilty as the doctors who do the actual killing. All these prodeath advocates, with their signs, green colors, screaming, whinning, nonsensical babble are all equally guilty and will have alot of explaining to do before the Great White Throne. They all laugh at God and mock God now, but the day of accounting for their actions is coming soon. I pray for them.
    James2
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Perhaps I should rephrase my question.

    At what point is violence a justifiable remedy for oppression?

    Is there any real difference between the slaughter of innocents in and outside the womb?
     
  5. JAMES2

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    Aaron:
    Well, I think you did rephrase that alot better. Now, if you want to get technical, what do you mean by "innocent." All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

    Unless one is regenerated, justified by faith, all done by God, not man's own works, so they can't boast, we will continue to have and live in an imperfect, depraved, sin-filled, fallen world. Terrible isn't it? It is just the result of man expressing his "freedom", his individuality, his "free-will," his being the captain of his soul (he thinks).

    I offered my solution in my last post to you, so won't repeat it. I will only say that the end does not justify the means. We can't, and shouldn't "take the law of fallen, depraved man into our own hands." That makes us no better than the evil we are trying to correct.

    My sincere believe is that for those that live on this earth and continue to mock God, insult God, pretend there is no God, declare they are enemies of God and all other such nonsense, the time is coming when God will evict the squatters from the "hotel."

    At what point is violence justifiable? For a Christian following the law of love and the teachings of Christ, I would say there is no point. God did not appoint you or any other Christian to right the wrongs of this depraved world. He appointed you to go out and preach the good news of the gospel to a lost world.
    God is Sovereign and he is in control, whether it appears so or not. Of course, in Cor. is says that Satan is the god of this world, and so he is at the moment. That's why the world is in such a mess. But, thank God, the eviction notice is about to be served and all the God-haters and God-mockers, and lost, depraved sinners will get exactly what they deserve -- and it won't be mercy.

    Remember Aaron, we Christians are followers of Jesus Christ. All the evil in this world will continue on just like it has since Adam and Eve (see, the doctrine of original sin can be emperically verified) until God evicts the lost, hell-deserving rebels.
    For me, I will choose to live by the law of love, not the law of violence.
    James2
     
  6. Gina B

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  7. Barnabas H.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAMES2: Is that harsh? Yup, sure is. That's why it is important to preach the gospel to these people instead of going around murdering people.

    Now, I'm not saying that a girl that has an abortion sends herself to hell. That would be getting into the whole issue of salvation by works. What I am saying is that all those involved in child-sacrifice need to be brought to repentance, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, be regenerated and yanked out of the kingdom of darkness. That is their only hope and not until then will abortion stop.
    I really feel that all the "teachers" that brainwash these girls are every bit as guilty as the doctors who do the actual killing. All these prodeath advocates, with their signs, green colors, screaming, whinning, nonsensical babble are all equally guilty and will have alot of explaining to do before the Great White Throne. They all laugh at God and mock God now, but the day of accounting for their actions is coming soon. I pray for them.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    And that will summerize indeed the whole topical discussions on this subject, of which by the way has been exhausted pretty far already. :(
     
  8. JAMES2

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    I agree!! As far as I can tell, we are preaching to the choir anyway. Enough!!

    Although, I will continue to pray for all those people blinded by Satan into thinking that child-sacrifice is somehow a "right."

    James2

    [ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JAMES2:


    You will never convince someone who is not a born again christian that child-sacrifice (abortion) is a gross, disgusting, unthinking, immoral act.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Baloney. I know many unsaved people who have more conscience over abortion (and do more to stop it) than many of my Christian friends who hide piously in their churches "praying about it".

    Would you advocate eliminating laws against, say, shoplifting, and then saying that "it's a problem of the heart and the only way you will get people to stop stealing is by witnessing to them and getting them saved"? Or, "just pray for them so that they don't clean out the grocery store"?

    That all sounds real spiritual, but it isn't.

    I think that it's an excuse used by those who would rather sit comfortably and "pray" rather than spending their time and money trying to actually save the lives of these precious ones being slaughtered at the rate of 3500 PER DAY.

    Sorry if this "sounds harsh", and I'm not judging any individuals here, you know your hearts and I can't. But my observation is that what I say is in many cases the truth and it sometimes fires me up. :mad:
     
  10. JAMES2

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    Pennsylvania Jim:

    Baloney!!! Well, you are entitled to your opinion but I think you are letting your emotions get a little ahead of your reason. First of all, if you read any of my posts you would see that I am very, very much against the sacrificing of the unborn for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER.

    Secondly, you must know a different kind of unsaved person than I do, although I admit I don't hang around much with the unsaved. I've debated a few hundred of them over the years and not a one of the prodeath people I debated were Christian. And of course anyone can say they are christian, but that doesn't mean it is true.

    Thirdly, you seen to have a rather strange view of christians and prayer. Maybe the Christians you know "hide piously in their churches" and "pray about it." I guess you think that is bad. But you might try it sometime. Prayer is not a bunch of mumbling to a supernatural spook, but a very powerful, effective means of saving people and changing their lives for the good. I've seen it over and over again through the years. I've seen girls change their lives, not go through with the abortions, and change their attitudes completely. On the other hand, I have NEVER SEEN ONE single person that was yelled and screamed at in front of an abortion mill change their mind about killing their baby.(Does it happen. Probably, but I haven't seen it).

    Am I against laws about shoplifting, then, advocate sitting around and praying for stealing to stop? Boy, that is a good one. Now it's comparing apples and oranges and the analogy doesn't hold, but of course I'm against repealing laws against stealing. I'm against repealing laws about murder too.
    I am for repealing laws that make abortion legal, AND I'm for praying for these young girls to be made new creatures in Christ and then THEY WILL change their attitudes about abortion. It happens all the time and in much greater numbers than girls that are assaulted outside of abortion clinics.
    You think prayer is an "excuse to do nothing to stop abortion." Well, I disagree. I happen to believe it is the most EFFECTIVE action one can take.

    Just as I am against abortion I am just as much against the murder of abortion "doctors." Not only do I find the whole idea immoral, repulsive, illegal, unchristian, and looney, I find it has the totally opposite effect on people than what those lunatics think it does. When people struggling with the moral question of abortion read in the newspaper about some "prolife" deranged person shooting a doctor to show how immoral it is to kill, it pushes them in the opposite direction of what we would like.

    I will NEVER change my mind about this: Abortion is murder. Killing an abortion doctor is murder. Killing a old person is murder. Killing a sick person is murder. Driving drunk and killing a person is murder.

    So, I'll pray and be effective in stopping the number of abortions, but you know as well as I do, that as long as these girls are brainwashed in the schools from the 1st grade on that abortion is a "right" and nothing more than having a wart removed, abortion will continue.

    I think the "Supreme Court Justices" that voted for Roe v Wade have a lot to answer for for that evil, evil decision. Abortion should be illegal in ALL cases and I will continue to pray that someday that will be the law of the land.

    James2

    [ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

    [ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  11. Chris Temple

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    Folks:

    I don't see this topic going anywhere but way down quickly, so forgive me for closing it.
     

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