Abortion vs. Vice

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Aaron, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron
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    In the Billy Sunday thread, two people saw alcohol as the "Abortion" issue of their day. But is this an accurate comparison?

    Are we really equating the wholesale slaughter of innocents with the sins of drunkenness? Abortion is more than an issue of manners. It can't exist without the murder of an innocent victim. How can the two be in any way equated?
     
  2. rbell

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    No.

    agreed...the comparison doesn't hold up.
     
  3. saturneptune

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    The two in no way can be equated. Murder is a sin. It is made quite clear from the slaying of Abel until present time. Certain types of murder demand the death penalty even to this day.

    Alcohol comsumption may or may not be a sin depending on how a Christian looks at the issue and whether or not one is drunk.

    This reminds me of the thread the "old time religion" and how much better it was. Murder was murder 50 years ago, 100 years ago, and 2000 years ago. Alcohol was alcohol yesterday and will be in the future.

    There have been some threads about drinking where one might wonder if a person could equate consumption of alcohol with murder, they are so obcessed with the subject.

    We all know that to God, sin is sin, and any falling short requires Jesus. In fact, the NT makes it quite clear one can murder with the heart. However, to equate one with the other is insane in this world. There is no way I will vote for a pro choice candidate for President. A candidate taking a drink every now and then would not be a consideration.
     
  4. tinytim

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    I beleived I am one of the ones that equated the two.

    First of all, Abortion is way worse than drunkenness... I agree.

    So why would I say that Drunkenness was the "abortion' of Billy Sunday's time?

    Here are my reasons.

    1) While abortion was around, it was not common, and certainly not seen as legal. But Drunkenness was running rampant. (While public intoxication would have been illegal, bars were common on every corner) Remember America had just came into the industrial age, and men found more time for vice than they did in the past. So because of this, Alcoholism was more prevalent than abortion back then.

    2) The temperance movement was in full force, and was heard in all parts of the country. Every preacher was preaching against Alcohol. It was the sin, that was destroying lives and families.

    3) It was a political issue that was sweeping the country. And people on street corners were carrying sign boards... just like we have today, different subject of course. Back then people picketed bars, today it is clinics

    4) People were advocating an amendment to prohibit alcohol, Just like we would love to have an amendment prohibiting abortion.


    I guess what it all boils down to is not that abortion = drunkenness...

    but the fight against abortion was something similar to the fight against alcohol...

    Preachers were on the bandwagon against it.
    Pickets were formed
    a constitutional amendment was fought for.
    It was the hot button issue of the time
    The whole nation was talking about it.
    And if you read histories of churches around that time, constitutions and covenants were formed around this issue.
    etc..


    I am sorry if it sounded like I was bringing abortion down to the level of drunkenness... while both are equal sins in the eyes of God, they are NOT equal sins on humanity, or our culture. Abortion is murder, and I would bet that if abortion had been legalized in Billy Sunday's day, that would have been the hot button issue...


    BTW Aaron, I agree with you. IT'S A MIRACLE!!!
     
    #4 tinytim, Feb 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2008
  5. Aaron

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    Let's savor this moment . . . :1_grouphug:

    Okay, moment's over! Back to my stony, Moses face . . . :type:
     
  6. Palatka51

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    And my question is, Why can't the OP see that it is vice that is the foundation to an abortion?
    Drinking leads to drunkenness and drunkenness to promiscuity and promiscuity to out of wedlock pregnancy which leads to abortions, broken homes, murders and souls going to hell. Such is the corruption of sin. Starts small ends up in death.
     
  7. tinytim

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    I was wondering who your avatar was...

    I was thinking it was Lot's wife.... but she would have been one ugly cuss!!! :laugh: (nah, I knew it wasn't her... but I didn't know who)

    But now I get it... Aaron and Moses...

    OK, I am either going blonde, or getting old.
     
  8. Aaron

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    Yep. That's Michelangelo's Moses. Notice the horns? Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Depictions
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    I thought abortion was the abortion issue of their day. Lest we forget that backroom abortions have been going on for years across the land. Only since the 1940s did it get standardization and clinical use.

    Yeah this is being silly on the part of people who think alcohol=abortion. The two are mightily different. Even in terms of political force the issues are separated. A more apt analogy might be the horrific child labor practices.
     
  10. Aaron

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    I can see that just fine. I'll take it even further. Abortion begins with Women's Sufferage, but I'll just leave it there. :saint:
     
  11. preachinjesus

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    wow...I'm not being snarky (well maybe a little) when I say this...

    and premartial sex leads to dancing and we can't have that! :laugh:

    the argumentative hurdles you made in your statement are so tremendous and fallacious it is hard to handle. Social drinking, with proper boundaries, doesn't lead to drunkenness. I know because many of my friends are social drinkers who aren't getting plastered and having wild orgies as you would suggest.
     
  12. tinytim

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    NO, No, No... dummy! (said in a nice way :laugh: ) Premarital sex leads to pregnancies... pregnancies to marriage...dancing comes before sex... not after!!!

    IMagine a married man WANTING to dance!!! :laugh: yech!

    OK, you women can burn me... I deserve it!
     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I was one of the ones who said alcohol was the “abortion” of Billy Sunday’s day. I was not equating the two sins but the movements. My major point was that the fight against alcohol was the motivation behind some of the relationships that Sunday built with other denominations.

    Like the abortion issue today bands Catholics and Protestants together the temperance movement also banded together people of many different theological viewpoints.

    While I am not equating the two I will add one other comparison to Tim’s list. Both abortion and alcoholism kill innocent people. According to MADD, 17,602 people died in alcohol-related traffic crashes in 2006 (the last year on their website). Now I know that pales in comparison to the number of abortion deaths, but it is still the death of innocents.
     
  14. Palatka51

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    Seems as though I have stumbled upon a punch line. Glad to have been able to bring some cheer to your lives boys. Or is that cheer from other sources?
    [​IMG]
     
  15. JerryL

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    Oh man, Now I get it. Every abortion started with a drink. Every act of promiscuity started with a drink. I have been so shallow in my thinking. I thought drunk and sober people had relations that ended up in abortion. I didn't know it was only drinkers doing it.:tongue3:
     
  16. tinytim

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    As long as you don't spike that punch.. we are fine!!!

    And NCT, good points.
     
  17. StefanM

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    I'll take it further. Abortion begins with democracy.

    If we had an absolute monarch, no court could overturn his decisions. :saint:
     
  18. Palatka51

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    Some in this thread think that this is a laughing matter. They wouldn't be laughing if their loved one was killed by a "social drinker".
     
  19. JerryL

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    Your hurdles are getting further apart. All "social drinkers" don't drink and drive. Some have a glass of wine and never leave the house. Some drink and taxi. Broad generalizations don't really sound good in a debate.
     
  20. Palatka51

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    Nope, did not say that. If any of you had the tragic loss of a loved one as I have had you'd not be laughing. My prayers go out for all of you. You need to be careful of who you make sport of.
     

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