Abortion

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by mnw, Apr 18, 2007.

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Your View on Abortion

  1. Abortion is never acceptable

    32 vote(s)
    91.4%
  2. Abortion is acceptable within a certain timeframe

    1 vote(s)
    2.9%
  3. Abortion is acceptable anytime before birth

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Abortion is acceptable in cases of incest or rape

    2 vote(s)
    5.7%
  1. mnw

    mnw
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    Having researched this topic recently I am curious to come back to the board and see what others believe. I seem to remember this being discussed before and several Christians seemed to believe abortion is okay.

    What has overwhelmed is the evidence that decisively proves that life begins at conception.

    I know this is a large topic, so maybe we can start with that point. When does life begin?

    I have always believed but now more than ever, that life begins at conception. It is a compelling point that the moment the sperm and egg unite you have a genetically unique individual.

    Here is an article with more info: http://www.epm.org/articles/lifebegin.html
     
  2. StefanM

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    I would vote "Abortion is never acceptable," but I do not think that abortion is necessarily wrong if required to save the life of the mother.

    I think of ectopic pregnancies as one particular example. If you believe that life begins at conception (as I do), then saving a woman from an ectopic pregnancy requires an abortion.

    I do not believe in abortion in cases of rape or incest.
     
  3. tinytim

    tinytim
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    Abortion is never acceptable

    Life begins at conception.
    I remember in my freshman biology class in college, when the atheist professor compared living things with non-living things that I was sitting there comparing living things with a fetus

    Guess what.... a fetus has all the scientific characteristics of a "living thing"

    So even in the atheistic scientific community, their definitions of life can be applied to the unborn.

    Here is the characteristics according to wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life
    1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, sweating to reduce temperature.
    The unborn baby regulates his/her body temperature apart from the mother.
    1. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
    They have cells that divide, and organize.
    1. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
    They use metabolism to grow.
    1. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
    They Grow.
    1. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
    They have this ability.
    1. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
    They respond to stimuli while still in the womb
    1. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.
    They have this ability...as much as a 1 yr old does...
     
    #3 tinytim, Apr 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007
  4. mnw

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    Apparently the cases where this is involved are incredibly low. Apparently less than 1% of all abortions are performed to save the mother's life.

    However, you do have a point. As well, what about expecting mothers who are diagnosed with cancer and need chemo or other therapies?

    It normally seems to be the case that to not perform sugery or administer medication would mean mother and baby would both die.

    In these cases the death of the baby is a secondary and unintended consequence of saving the mother's life.
     
  5. convicted1

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    In regards to abortion, what would have happened if Elisabeth had somehow aborted her baby? I know that this would not have happened because of the way God does thing, but for the sake of supposing....

    When Elisabeth was talking with Mary, the Holy Ghost entered into her body, and John the Baptist, six months in the womb, leaped for joy!! Life begins way before birth. In most cases, nine months before!!
     
  6. GrannyGumbo

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    Abortion is murder and I'm one of those who hold signs saying so.

    God already had a word for the unborn long before the baby-murdering crowd came up with the clinical term "fetus". He refers to the unborn as babes and children (1 Sam 4:19, Luke 2:5, Luke 1:41). Fetus is a term used by baby murderers and their supporters.

    I've yet to hear anyone ask a woman when her fetus is due. A baby is only referred to as a "fetus" when someone wants to kill him. God hates the hands that shed innocent blood (Prov 6:16-17).

    The most dangerous place to be in America is in a mother's womb!
     
  7. mnw

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    One very ironic point that has been brought to my attention is that in some US states a judge will imprison a mother-to-be for drug use, and warnings are always being given about the dangers to babies from the mothers inhaling smoke or drinking alcohol, yet it is okay to kill the baby.

    So, do not hurt the baby but it is okay to kill him?
     
  8. reformedbeliever

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    Psalms 139:13. For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.
    14. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well.
    15. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, {And} skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
    16. Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained {for me,} When as yet there was not one of them.

    Jeremiah 1: 5. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

    Among so many others.........
     
  9. mnw

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    IF you believe that abortion is fine within certain time frames then when?

    When does life begin?

    Peter Singer would say you can kill a baby anytime until 28 days after he is actually born...
     
  10. go2church

    go2church
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    Time frame as determined by the mother up to the point that the baby is viable apart from the mother. Which thankfully is getting better and better each day.

    This is a mute argument in the US, the matter is considered settled law in this country. Abortion is legal and is likely to stay that way.
     
  11. webdog

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    The one notion I have struggled with was when a mother is on the delivery table, and the choice comes down to either your wife or your child survives. Allowing the child to die would techincaly be abortion, but what is allowing your wife to die called? If you could save her, and don't, isn't that considered manslaughter? That's one I would seriously struggle with.
     
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    manslaughter? That insinuates that the child is less than the mother.
     
  13. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    I doubt it. And it is a law established on a law suite that was filed under a false premise. And it is very likely to be overturned. As such murderous actions should be.
     
  14. mnw

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    I don't agree with the viability argument. Do you mean that when a baby can survive apart from his mother is the time the baby should no longer be aborted?

    If so, what about all those kept alive by life support and medication? Are their lives no longer viable and therefore no longer of any worth?

    The only difference between those considered "viable" and those not considered "viable" is normally size.

    At 21 days the heart is developed and pumping blood and at 40 days the baby's brain waves can be recorded. But even from the time of conception the baby is human, not becoming human, but a human who is growing.

    From what I have read the majority of abortions take place after 40 days. In which case we are knowingly stopping a heart beat and brain waves - that is how they will one day decide we are all dead.

    That argument is the slippery slope that leads to a complete abandonment of putting any worth on human life.

    [quoteThe one notion I have struggled with was when a mother is on the delivery table, and the choice comes down to either your wife or your child. That's one I would seriously struggle with.[/quote]

    God help any one of us that has to make that decision. Perhaps it is one of those things worth discussing just in case it ever happens.
     
  15. webdog

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    How so? Would you call it "adult abortion"?
     
  16. mnw

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    2 Timothy may be bringing out the semantics of this debate, and rightly so.

    When we use words like embryo, fetus, abortion instead of baby, baby and murder it changes the argument.

    If it is abortion at 30 weeks then why does the same action get a different name at 30 years?

    However, as I said before, situations where this actually is the case are incredibly rare. But, it would still be an awful decision to have to make.

    It comes back to the saving of one life have a second and unintended consequence of taking another.
     
  17. bound

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    Legal Precedent should not exempt erroneous decisions from being overturned. For example, it was a Legal Precedent that slavery was legal in the United States. This, to our merit, has been overturned and now slavery is seen as the crime against human dignity that it is. I see no reason to suggest that continued discussion on Abortion to be moot.

    Abortion is murder and we are going to reap God's Wraith if we don't start living more Godly lives. :tear:
     
  18. StefanM

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    Slavery wasn't overturned. The Constitution was amended.

    I really wish we could amend the Constitution to outlaw abortion, but that's probably not going to happen any time soon (or ever).
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    Right there with you on this one.
     
  20. preachinjesus

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    for what it's worth I noticed no one has pointed to the recent, today, decision by the Supreme Court outlawing partial birth abortions.

    Regardless of your position on the more concentrated issues I think most everyone here can agree this was a great step forward.
     

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