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Featured About Hebrews' warning: Do not draw back to perdition

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Browner, Mar 25, 2016.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So the bible is wrong?

    Romans 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
    30 Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified.

    Ephesians 1:5 having predestined us for adoption as children through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his desire,

    Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
     
    #141 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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  2. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    According to His purpose...of salvation if we chose it...not zombie nonsense as you allude to.
     
    #142 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  3. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Men have real free will. Don't project your problems on others. Your interpretations are wrong.
     
    #143 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Nobody has had "free will" since the fall of Adam. The lost man's will is in bondage to the law of sin and death. The saved man's will is bound to the law of new life in Christ. The lost man is slave to sin and the saved man is servant to Christ.

    If you don't want to hear the answer you shouldn't have asked the question.

    It is not my interpretation. It is what the bible says. I just believe it. I suggest you give it a try.
     
    #144 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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  5. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Says you. Jesus says whosoever WILL let Him come.


    https://www.openbible.info/topics/free_will


    Jesus sets us free.
    It should be but even Paul counted not himself to have attained.

    If you had any answers we could see that. I see fogginess and pet doctrines.
    False.
     
    #145 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  6. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    No one wills to come until God does a work of regeneration.

    Wait, you said man is already free - in His will. Jesus said we are not free until He sets us free, and that includes all aspects of our human nature. John 8:31ff.

    Wonder who is right, you or Jesus?

    Don't.

    And as usual you have no Scriptural answers, only derision of others and the biblical truth they offer you.
     
    #146 Internet Theologian, Apr 16, 2016
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes he did. But that has nothing at all to do with the bondage of the will.
    Yes, and if our will were not bound He would not have had to set us free.
    Over and over and over again Paul says of himself "the bond-servant of Jesus Christ."
    I understand. Sometimes it is difficult to understand things we don't like.
    True.
    arist.jpg
     
    #147 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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  8. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    You don't use Scripture and it is apparent you don't know the truth of the Gospel. You have a truncated version.
     
    #148 Internet Theologian, Apr 16, 2016
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  9. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Prove it. Show us the regeneration of the thief on the cross? How does that work, God regenerates the dead man and fallen man and then later the guy gets eternal life?

    Not free from sin but free of will to chose!
     
    #149 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  10. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    I have a clue. You could too. Ask.
     
    #150 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  11. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Of course not. You made that up! Show me in the bible where the eill in in bondage? You can't.

    Absurd. He sets us free from sin not choices.
    In no way does that mean Paul did not have the choice to accept Jesus or not when he got saved. Ridiculous canard.
     
    #151 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  12. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    Of course God does it that way. Note Ephesians 2:1ff.

    Apparently he came to his senses. Wonder who was the cause of that? Himself? We only believe by the same power that raised the Christ of God from the dead - Ephesians 2:19. The thief went from hatred of God, and ridicule of God to confession, knowledge of Christ and His sinfulness, and full repentance. Someone revealed that to this thief, note Matthew 11:25ff that Christ Sovereignly chooses these, then they come heavy laden to Him, and He gives them rest. :)

    None are free in any manner until the Son sets them free - John 8:36.

    Again, wonder who is right, you or the Christ of God?
     
    #152 Internet Theologian, Apr 16, 2016
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  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Uh, no, I didn't. I suggest your read Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther. It is a detailed discussion (with Erasmus arguing for "free will") of how the soul of a lost man is in bondage to the law of sin and death.
    Nobody has said lost people can't make choices. They do so every day. What "bondage of the will" means is that they can only make choices in the context of their spiritual state. The unsaved man cannot will himself into heaven apart from Christ.
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)
     
    #153 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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  14. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    I noted it. Unrelated to anything you are pushing.
    We are a work in progress and though we fall we will not be utterly cast down or forsaken. Ever.
    Great, just as anyone can do by praying to get saved. So where is this 'regeneration' before?
    No. Jesus revealed it. Any other someone is in your head.

    Baloney. We are very very totally free to make our choice. We are not free from sin till we do.

    Hint: Lose the pretension of being connected to the meaning of Scripture...so far it is a big gong for you.
     
    #154 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  15. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Then show chapter and verse.

    No.

    Just post the point and Scriptural support.

    Seems like some here are saying just that.

    Irrelevant and obvious. Anyone can ask and receive salvation! Jesus saves but we must come to Him. Chose Him.
    Think you are without sin now? I dare you to claim it.
     
    #155 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
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  16. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian Well-Known Member

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    You have no answers and simply dismiss Scripture. No man is saved by his choice. :)
     
    #156 Internet Theologian, Apr 16, 2016
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  17. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    All are saved with the choice to get saved that Jesus gave us. GONG!
     
    #157 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I did. What part of "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the bond-servant of sin. (John 8:34)" didn't you understand?
    Well, if you refuse to study to show yourself approved unto God I guess there is nothing I can do about it. 1 Corinthians 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
    Please quote where anyone in this thread has said that. Thank you.

    No. And I have never claimed to be. Why the dishonest straw man questions?

    What are you, about 6? "I dare you." "No, I double dare you." "Uh uh, I double dog dare you."

    Can you at least try to engage in discussion like an adult?
     
    #158 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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  19. dad1

    dad1 Member

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    Yes, it was quite plain. That had nothing whatsoever to do with free choice which is what we use to get saved. Only after that are we set free from sin. You are out in left field.

    Just be clear you say you do have sin now? You ain't deep you just ain't clear.

    Whatever. Do it or face the music of being exposed.
    Maybe go ask for one to debate with me, this is tiring.
     
    #159 dad1, Apr 16, 2016
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.

    John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    2 Thessalonians 2:13b God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
     
    #160 TCassidy, Apr 16, 2016
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