About your particular Baptist denomination?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Wisdom Seeker, Jan 13, 2003.

  1. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
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    I have only experienced Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. So, I would appreciate your help. Are there any differenences between types of Baptist churches? Or are the standards the same accross the board?

    Where do your churches stand on matters such as these?

    Innerantcy of the Bible.
    Bible versions.
    Seperation from the World: ie: movies, modest dress etc.
    Church service. (what members are expected to do to serve the church, such as ushering, nursery, teaching, greeting etc.)
    Music.
    Frequency of services.
    Soul winning.

    Thanks... I really appreciate your thoughts on these subjects.

    [ January 13, 2003, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
     
  2. Johnv

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    The SBC. A denomination so great, they named a phone company after them ;)
     
  3. Wisdom Seeker

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    John, You know I love your sense of humor, and you are one of the posters that I'm quite fond of...but I really asked this question because I wanted to get a real answer. I wish you would have taken it seriously...I have reasons for asking.
     
  4. Johnv

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    In all seriousness, it seems the things you like about the IFB are the same things I like about the SBC. While I've never sat down and done a play-by-play of the differences between the two, it would be intersting to see how many differences between our churches are less about doctrine and more about tradition ;)

    Blessings always,
    Johnv
     
  5. Abiyah

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    I think that of all things, they are the honesty, the
    accountability, and the love for the unfailing,
    perfect Word of our God and strong education in
    it.
     
  6. Wisdom Seeker

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    John, I have not given my opinion of what I like or dislike about my IFBC. So, I don't know what you mean by the same things I like are what you like. It's just a list of attributes. How I feel about them has not been posted or implied.

    Maybe I should make it clearer what I'm after. I would like to find out where other Baptist denominations stand, in the areas I listed. So that I can make a comparison to see if my churches beliefs are inherantly IFB or fall under the bigger umbrella of the title Baptist.

    [ January 13, 2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: WisdomSeeker ]
     
  7. Jeff Weaver

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    Wisdom Seeker noted:

    Here are my answers for Primitive Baptists"

    Innerantcy of the Bible. - Yep, agree with that.

    Bible versions. - King James Version, preferred.

    Seperation from the World: ie: movies, modest dress etc. - Never really hear it discussed, never hear of our folks going to the movies, and folks are always modestly dressed. Pants are allowed though, head coverings are not required.

    Church service. (what members are expected to do to serve the church, such as ushering, nursery, teaching, greeting etc.)

    We dont have these things, so not an issue. For monetary donations, there is a box in the back of the meeting house. No Sunday schools, no nurseries. Everyone greets everyone else.

    Music. No music.

    Frequency of services. Saturday afternoon or Saturday night and again on Sunday morning. Depends on the individual church, some churches have a greatly staggered schedule to share ministerial support with other congregations.

    Soul winning. Souls have all ready been won, when Jesus was crucified, arose from the dead, and ascended to the right hand of the Father.

    Jeff.
     
  8. Wisdom Seeker

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    That was awsome Jeff...with one post you helped me to understand Primitive Baptists better.

    No music...wow. I think over all that's the one thing that I've never seen in any church.

    And also on the matter of soul winning...do you mean to say that praying to accept Jesus Christ as savior is not required? Is their an alter call?

    Do You mind my asking how long your average service is?

    I'm only asking to be educated in things I'm not knowledgable about...no other reason I assure you.
     
  9. Johnv

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    John, I have not given my opinion of what I like or dislike about my IFBC.

    Oh dear, I read your list and assumed those were the things you liked. Silly me. This should be inerrant proof that one should not begin the work day on Monday without first consuming a caffienated product.

    My humble apologies. Allow me to reread your post and respond accorcingly, and, hopefully, more coherently.
     
  10. Jeff Weaver

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    Widsom Seeker wrote:

    I should add that we typically sing in a manner which would probably be more at home in the 16th Century than the 21st. We aren;t the only ones without musical accompanyment. The eastern rite Orthodox churches don't (someone correct me if I am wrong - the only places I ever attended Orthodox services was in Eastern Europe and they didnt). The Churches of Christ (Campbellites dont use musical instruments, and some other small baptist and Presbyterian groups don't use them either.

    This one is hard to explain in a few short sentences, hopefully I can get there. As for altar calls, we don't have those. We dont expect that every one will have an emotional conversion experience. We do expect that by the person's walk, we will see the evidences of repentance and conversion, but we leave that strictly between the individual and God. There is no emotional coercion (I hope that word isn't offensive) in church. Most of us believe that church is for worship of God, nothing else. Study of God's word, extensive wrestling with moral/biblical issues is an intensely personal issue, and unless someone asks for assistance, the issue won't be forced. As for those who may not be visibly walking with God in any given point in time, we believe that God will irresistably draw them to Himself at sometime between conception and the grave, if they be among the elect. When God does this drawing, then He will make them repentant, change their walk, etc. But it is strictly an act of God, over which we have no control.

    Usual services are about 90 minutes, sometimes less, sometimes more. Of this 30 minutes is usually devoted to congrgational singing of hymns or psalms. About 15 minutes is devoted to prayer, 30-45 minutes to preaching. And that is it.
    I appreciate that, and know you well enough from the board to believe you without reservation. Our way of doing things isn't for everyone. Some have said that we are in a time warp, and perhaps so. I often wonder if we aren't fish out of water, but to me, the services are beautiful, and the theology matches as well as any I can find what the scriptures teach. But I try to keep an open mind, and know that we know it part, see in part and look through a glass darkly.

    Hope it helps.

    Jeff
     
  11. Wisdom Seeker

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    Yes, it did help. Thank you so much Jeff.

    When you said no music...I assumed that included singing. I consider singing music as well. I can see where singing would maybe feel more spiritual, without instruments... I get it...I think. The singing goes with the worshipping of God and isn't to be mistaken for entertainment. Sometimes we sing acapela at our church too. And I think it can actually feel more like an offering of worship that way.
     
  12. rsr

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    Jeff, you're correct about the Orthodox churches' not using instrumental music.

    BTW, the really strict Orthodox churches also don't have pews; many in this country have them, but that's an exception, I think.
     
  13. Refreshed

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    Laurenda,

    Here's that post about the various different types of Baptist churches I've attended. Most Baptist churches seem to differ from each other on a church-to-church basis, though, rather than just along denominational lines.

    Innerrancy of the Bible.
    1. Liberal Southern Baptist - The Bible was considered infallible in doctrine, but not "inerrant" because of translation difficulties. Used primarily NASB, NIV, and other "modern versions."
    2. Conservative Southern Baptist - The Bible was considered both inerrant and infallible, any version. Used primarily KJV.
    3. Missionary Baptist - Same as conservative Southern Baptist.
    4. Independent Fundamental Baptist - Infallible and inerrant in the KJV.

    Bible versions.
    1. Any except KJV.
    2. Any, but mostly KJV.
    3. Any, but mostly KJV.
    4. KJV.

    Seperation from the World: ie: movies, modest dress etc.
    1. Not addressed.
    2. Not addressed.
    3. Personal conviction with conservative tendencies.
    4. Personal conviction with conservative tendencies.

    Church service. (what members are expected to do to serve the church, such as ushering, nursery, teaching, greeting etc.)
    1. Members expected to pitch in and help.
    2. Members appointed.
    3. Same as number 1.
    4. Same as number 1.

    Music.
    1. Contemporary-style music.
    2. Hymns, psalms, and spiritual songs. No preaching against contemporary music.
    3. Same. Preached against contemporary music.
    4. Same. Preached against contemporary music.

    Frequency of services.
    1. Twice a week, Sunday mornings and Wednesday prayer meeting/business meeting once a month.
    2. Three times a week. Sunday mornings, night, and Wednesday night.
    3. Same as Conservative SBC.
    4. Doctrines Class Monday night, Wednesday Services, Doctrines Class Saturday morning, Morning Service, and Afternoon service on Sundays.

    Soul winning.
    1. None.
    2. None.
    3. Occasional door-to-door.
    4. Street preaching every third Friday.

    Jason :D
     
  14. Wisdom Seeker

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    That was amazing Jason...You really helped me to understand the differences... Wow. That was just completely awesome. Thank you so much. [​IMG]
     
  15. baptistteacher

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    I have been a member of IFB churches for over 40 years, in Oklahoma, Missouri, and Canada, and there is one thing I have noticed about us - we are a diverse group!!!

    The churches I have been a member of are Independent, not tied to a "Denomination." We fellowship with the Baptist Bible Fellowship, the largest IFB movement in the US, and the second largest in missionairies only to the SBC. {Of course, they had about a 100+ year head start ;) )
    When I say we fellowship with the BBF, what that really means is that the Pastor fellowships with the BBF, since it is by definition and practice a "Fellowship of Pastors."

    Within these churches there is a lot of diversity in some areas, but doctrinaly there is mostly agreement. Now to your points: (and I will not claim to speak for the BBF, or for anyone else for that matter)

    Innerancy: This is one of the Fundamentals of the Faith, and is very important in the churches with which I am acquainted. (By the way, the Fundamentals of the Faith is where we get that Fundametalist name).

    Bible Versions: To my knowledge, most BBF and other IFB churches are KJV only people, although this has seemed to change recently.

    Separation: There are a lot of differences here. Some are extremely strict (legalistic) to the point of "If you don't dress/talk/do things the way I do, you aren't a very good Baptist." Others are less strict, and some are near the opposite end of the spectrum. Some are totally aginst Women wearing pants, some don't make an issue of it. You get the idea.
    Some try to make this the test of whether or not you are a Fundamentalist, but the real test is based on the Fundamentals of the Faith.

    Church service: This should be "Service to God." We provide opportunities for people to serve God through the local church, including the things you listed, and many more. Members are encouraged and taught to live daily for God, putting Him first in all things.

    Music: Here is another sticky wicket. Music ranges from those who only use traditional hymns to those who use "Praise Teams", and a lot of different styles in between. I don't know of any that use "Christian Rock" although there may be some.

    Frequency of Services: Most have SS, Sun Morning worship, Sun Eve. worship, Wed evening prayer meeting, although many don't do much praying at these meetings. Some still have Sun Eve training union type classes, but attendance at these has shrunk over the past 10 - 15 years, and many have dropped them. Too bad, they were a great source of discipleship and information on topics that seldom get covered in SS or "regular" church.

    Soul Winning: almost all that I know of have some type of soul winning program.

    There is tendancy to lump all IFB churches together, as if we were all the same. Not hardly. Any attempt to make us all be the same goes against 2 of the Baptist Distinctives: Autonomy of the local church, and the Priesthood of the believer.

    Hope this isn't too long and wordy. I really tried to be succint. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. Bob Farnaby

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    Hi, thought I'd share some of my thoughts and experiences.
    Firstly, I have very little knowlege of any of the American groups.
    Secondly my personal moviings between Baptist churches in England and Australia has taught me that there are many variations in the churches in any particular group, often substantial variations within a particular church. The only way to evaluate a church is to attend it and listen to the preaching , worship, and praying - then see if the actions of the church match the words.

    The church i'm currently a member of, which is dictated partly by geography as well as conviction, is a member church of "The Baptist Union of Victoria" (Victoria is a state in Austrlia)

    Within the churches there would be some which regard the Bible as totally Infallable and without error in it's original tounges, others that take a less exalted view, some that regard it as a useful hook, and the odd ones that treat it as an inconvienience.

    The versions (English Translations) used vary, a few still use the KJV, a lot the NIV, and quite a few the Good News Bible

    Seperation from the world ... in most places you'd tend to think the church was a place for the 'nice' people to meet, the alternative to the bar ....Usually seperation simply means avoiding the real extreams. eg, the Movies issue would simply be 'no porn movies'

    As far as church work is concerned it seems to depend on the size of the church ... the smaller ones expect the members to do everything, the tasks depending on ability, gifts, and willingness, the larger ones becomming more and more 'proffessional' the congregation becomming more and more an audience.

    Music, often covers a variety of styles, depending on the church leadership and available musicians. It goes from the 'just hymns' to the 'must be less then 5 year old' stuff Many having a mix.

    Most churches have a Sunday morning and a Sunday evening service for the whole church (mornings more popular) and small groups during the week for prayer, bible study, and other activities.

    As far as soul winning is concerned, again they vary tremendously, from those who have a lot of traditional evengelistic meetings, to those who use friendship groups, alpha courses and similar. The definition of what a christian is determins the way in which people are invited to see Jesus.

    Well, think that's enough for one post, and please remember, the above comments are my personal thoughts, not those of the Baptist Union of Victoria or any of the churches that make up that organisation

    Regards
    Bob
     
  17. Ben W

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    Gidday Wisdom Seeker, I am a member of the Seventh Day Baptist Church, so maybe these will help.

    Innerancy of the Bible, Absolutley, very much "Bible Based".

    Bible Version. Any, Paraphrases are regarded as that though.

    Seperating from the world. Much like most christians. People are not forced to dress in a certain way or not to see certain films etc. It would be hoped the membership are able to make there own choices based on their interpretation of scripture.

    Church Service. This is where we are a little different to some mainstream Baptists. Everyone has the opportunity for pulpit ministry to the group. The pastor, may not get behind the pulpit every week.

    Music. Whatever the congregation feels is appropriate. Some may have hymns, others the latest Hillsong music (Contemporary Australian Christian music).

    Frequency of Services, Weekly on Saturdays, Usually a church meeting followed by a Bible Study.

    Soul WInning, One of the Oldest Evangelical Protestant churches. The Australian Conference has grown to four churches and three Plants are being worked on. It is my priveledge to be leading one church plant.

    have a look at http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/
     
  18. Abiyah

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    Originally posted by WisdomSeeker:
    . . . . Where do your churches stand on matters such as these?


    Well, you already know mine is not a church. 8o)

    Innerancy of the Bible.

    In their original form, all Scripture was inerrant.

    Bible versions.

    Although our pastors do make specific recom-
    mendations, individuals use which ever versions
    they believe to be the most error-free. During
    services, the ones mainly used are the Hebrew
    Torah scroll for the Law, the Stones for the
    English version of the Law and Prophets, and
    the NASB and one other often mentioned here,
    which I cannot recall at the moment.

    Separation from the World: ie: movies, modest dress etc.

    Modesty in demeanor and dress are constantly
    stressed, so our movie and TV watching are
    expected to follow suit, as are our mannerisms
    and dress. Dating is strongly discouraged for
    unmarried couples, in preference of courting.
    Virginity and abstinance for the unmarried are
    expected, and should one be caught in sexual
    sin, it is dealt with.

    Church service. (what members are expected to do to serve the church, such as ushering, nursery, teaching, greeting etc.)

    There are many ways in which we serve, but we
    have no ushers. Everyone is expected to act as
    an usher, now that I think about it. 8o)

    The nursery is for nursing mothers; children are
    both welcome and expected to be in the services.
    Children are treated differently in Jewish circles
    and in a way likely unacceptable by churches--
    quite a bit more freely, I guess I should say.

    Teaching is reserved for those who have degrees
    and/or strong and successful formal Biblical
    teaching. For example, I am ineligible to teach,
    because I did not finish college and because
    my focus was not upon biblical studies.
    Fortunately, we have plenty of elegible teachers.

    Music.

    We sing typical Jewish and Messianic songs.
    They are carefully chosen in order to maintain
    biblical integrity.

    Frequency of services.

    We have two services on Sabbath, with a teaching
    between. Many of us just stay there all day--
    from 10:30 am until about an hour after sunset.
    Then, there are teachings on Monday, Wednesday,
    and Thursday nights. There is a weekly class
    just for children, and there are a few other
    services throughout the week that I have not even
    checked into.

    Soul winning.

    We are expected to actively do this on our own.

    [ January 16, 2003, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  19. Pete

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    Bob & Ben seem to have covered the range of most of the Baptist Churches in Oz, including the one I attend, but for the record:

    Inerrancy of the Bible: Original writers inspired by God to write His Word, therefore no errors or contradictions.

    Bible versions: Pastor and other speaker I have heard there use NIV. Congregation is various, mostly NIV or KJV/NKJV I think...I don't think there would be any NCVs, and am positive there are no NWTs ;)

    Seperation from the World: ie: movies, modest dress etc: Not a "suit and tie" Church. Some ladies in slacks I think, but generally I don't take much notice. My Akubra is probably the only hat. Church is mostly an older congregation, so I doubt the opening of the latest Schwarzenegger movie makes a profit from Church ;)

    Church service. (what members are expected to do to serve the church, such as ushering, nursery, teaching, greeting etc.): No real younguns, so no nursery. I am not member, but teach Sunday school (poor kids huh?). As for greeting, there is usually a group of 2-6 people in foyer to say g'day to when you walk in. Pastor makes sure congregation are paying attention in service by asking questions, getting people to look up Bible verses, etc etc.

    Music: A mix of choruses at start of service. Scripture In Song with organ and piano accompaniment or sometimes a capella, some other songs sung with CDs, now and then a hillsong with CD...(hills...*UG*) Anywhere from 1 to 4 hymns through rest of service. I have taken guitars and jammed with Church musos a couple of times.

    Frequency of services: Morning service every Sunday. Night service every Sunday except when monthly "hymn sing" is on that afternoon.

    Soul winning: hmmmm more info?

    Pete
     
  20. LandonL

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    I attend a SBC church in Oklahoma, and what we believe pretty much lines up with the Baptist Faith and Message found at www.sbc.net, but I'll just give it the quick go-over so you don't necessarily have to surf over there. ;)

    1. Inerrancy of the Bible
    Absolutely believe in this. This is what guides our church above anything else.

    2. Bible versions
    No real "official" or preferred version, though I think our pastor preaches from the NIV, never really payed attention on that point though.

    3. Seperation from the world.
    Except for the things layed out in black & white in the Bible, it is pretty much up to the individual believer's convictions. i.e. We're against drunkenness, but going to an R rated movie is up to the believer and his/her parents, if applicable.

    4. Church service
    Everyone is expected to be a greeter of some sort, we want to make sure new people feel welcome. I myself am an usher, and since I'm still in the youth group I do what I can to help out my youth minister, trying to learn about ministry, since that's going to be my profession. ;)

    5. Music
    Some contemporary, some traditional hymns. Every church service it seems we can slide straight from "Amazing Grace" to "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" or something of the sort. The old people don't even complain, and we(the youth) love the old stuff.

    6. Frequency of services
    Sunday school & 2 worship services in the morning. Discipleship training & worship service Sunday night. Youth, RAs, activities, etc. on Wednesday night.

    7. Soul winning
    We're Southern Baptist, duh. [​IMG] Seriously, half of our church's budget goes to the cooperative program, and that's good. Sadly, though, I fear the congregation may be growing complacent. We were recently in an interim time after out pastor of 30 years retired, and our congregation actually grew during that perios(not common, I'm told). I'm afraid we're feeling... satisfied with ourselves. But anyways, we try to balance soul-winning with discipleship, because how wise and beneficiary to the cause is it to play catch & release with people's souls?
     

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