Abraham and Genesis 26:4-5

But again, you are missing the point. One can look at creation and know that assistance is needed. But it doesn't tell us what that is. The gospel is that Jesus died for sin for us. That is not in creation anywhere.

No, and it could hardly be less relevant. The fact that someone may have named a constellation after something biblical does not mean that the gospel is in the stars.

You made a statement that seemed at least as strong as mine. I don't recall you stating why you believed that Job learned about his redeemer from the stars.

So if I said that Job didn't get his knowledge from a used NASCAR tire would you ask me to prove that? There are some things so patently obvious that they don't need proof. I think we generally called that prima facie. The fact is that there is not one iota of evidence that Job learned that from the stars. Asking me to prove that he didn't borders on absurd. No one would think that he did, based on the text of Scripture.

God told us what the signs were for. You quoted it yourself: For seasons and days and years. Not for the gospel or the Redeemer or any such things.

I have already pointed out several arguments, and I have pointed out the absurdity of asking me to prove it.

I disagree. The gospel is in the Bible. That is God's propositional revelation to us.

But none of these have anything to do with the gospel. The "law of the heavens" most likely has to do with the way that the heavens operate. It is reference to man's finiteness, as you can tell by reading them in their context where God tells Job to "brace himself like a man" and let God ask him some questions.

 

...and that's exactly what GIS is, sharing the Gospel through the stars.

What does this mean :confuse: If the constellations were named for a purpose, to share the Gospel, there is nothing "hidden" about it. That's like saying there are hidden meanings from the words of the alphabet when you put them together to form words.

 

This has nothing to do with the gospel but shows God as Creator and ruler of all. "Laws of the heavens" refers to reading hidden meanings into constellations? Please give evidence of that from the Bible. I think it is just a reference to the way God has ordered the heavens and creation. You are reading meanings into things that are not there, webdog.

There needs to be biblical support for such a theory, and there is none. Believe me, it would make my ministry much easier if there were. I've had very fanatical believers in GIS practically hound me. They get angry when I don't agree. It would make evangelizing easier, too. But I cannot in good conscience do it because I am convinced that GIS is false.

What is the source for your information that this is what Orion, Taurus, and so forth mean? Taurus is not the judge, it's the bull. Orion was a Greek name for a hunter in Greek mythology.

This has nothing to do with the zodiac at all.

Yes! It's proclaiming God as the Creator and His glory as Creator!!! It's poetry. This does not support the belief that there is a hidden meaning in the constellations.​

 

Why do the meaning have to be referred to in the Bible? The fact the very names are referred to in the Bible should get the reader to look deeper as to why they are in there in the first place.

Marcia, do you think God had the wicked astrology in mind when He wrote the constellation names in the Bible? Clearly you don't think this! Common sense dictates that the modern astrology evolved from it's original purpose.

 

If the constellations gave the gospel, there would be biblical evidence for it. It's not analogous to the alphabet because the alphabet is used to make words.

The constellations are not used to give us words or give us the gospel - only by those who decided there was a hidden message there. This came about in the 1800s. If there truly was a gospel there, then we would have known about it before the 1800s.

I could write a book on a system of rivers somewhere forming a cross, and maybe another system forming a woman expecting a baby (the virgin with child), and then say that the gospel message is in the pattern of rivers. This is called reading meanings into things; something that is totally against the Bible.

 

The names of constellations in the Bible (I think there is only two) have nothing to do with the gospel and you haven't shown that they do.

Naming constellations is astronomy, not astrology.

Astrology and astronomy were the same thing when first practiced. People looked at the heavenly bodies and learned how to measure distance, follow their movements, etc. But they also read meanings into them (pagan people read meanings into them, not God). Astrology and astronomy separated around the Age of Reason.

What you are saying is not giving evidence for GIS.

 

You say it has nothing to do with the Bible...then go on to state "you think" it's just a reference to the way God has ordered the heavens. What does what you think have to do with the Bible?

Who says there hasn't been evidence for it...and you have shut your mind to it? Trust me, I'm not fanatical, nor will I "hound you". You just totally ignore the passages in the Bible dealing with the constellations?

There's been numerous writings by different authors. I believe it was Dolphin (not the mammal, but the author's name)

Obviously according to you, since you dismiss the meanings of the constallations to begin with.

Because something's poetry, doesn't mean one can dismiss it's contents as being both literal or true. It's clearly proclaiming stars as signs...signs deliver information...information delivers truth. You claim it does not support the belief...how do you prove a negative?

 

...so there should be biblical evidence that Gospel tracts give the Gospel too, I suppose.

What is your source that this whole thing was "invented" in the 1800's?

 

Nothing to do with the Gospel, eh? And what is the pupose of the Bible in the first place if not to proclaim the Bible? The mention of the constellations (by God in first person, no less) is insignificant? You are confusing decans with constellations. Decans date back to 2100 B.C or so from ancient Egypt. They do not share the same names as the constellations given by God in Job, btw.

 

How does a reference to constellations prove there is a gospel in the stars? These references do not mean they are connected to giving the gospel! I am not ignoring them. But they have nothing to do with the gospel or reading a hidden meaning about the gospel.

You have not proved your case. I say there is no evidence for it because there is none in the Bible and the "evidence" for it came about in the 1800s largely through a man named Joseph Seiss and a couple of others, whose work has never been validated.

 

You are really reaching now. :tongue3:

You have not explained how God referring to a couple of constellations has anything to do with the gospel. Btw, I have found that this seems to be the only thing in the Bible GIS supporters offer in their futile efforts to convince people they are right, yet they can never show how this connects to the gospel.

God refers to all kinds of things in the Bible that have no connection with the gospel. The references show his knowledge and power as Creator. That is what the context is about.

 

Why did God mention them? Was it just a tangent He went on with Job uttering nonsense?

I disagree, and I believe Paul did as well...
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; “THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.”

Didn't realize Romans was written that late!

 

I didn't say those couple things alone is what refers to the GiS. I believe when the evidence taken as a whole supports it.

So the constellations God mentions were named and created by Him What "context" supports this claim?

The book of Jasher (also mentioned in the Bible) has some interesting reading in chapters 8 and 9, too. If these accounts are true, Abram's apparent involvement and interest in the heavens before believing in God may play a role in his using the stars to proclaim the Gospel.

 

Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.



Exactly how does a person know the gospel by looking at the stars? How does he know of Jesus?

 

Be honest...you haven't read the thread :laugh:

 

I already said at least twice - God is showing Job who is in charge and that He's the Creator!

V. 18 refers to Ps. 19 which is talking about the glory of the Lord, and how He as Creator is seen. Some commentators write that Ps 19 was a refutation of Egyptian views of one of their gods, Ra, the sun god, who supposedly travelled around following the sun and then descended into the earth.

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Pr-Sa/Ra-Re.html

Where is this gospel in Ps. 19, and if the gospel has gone out into the world via the constellations, how did it go?

 

Posted by Webdog:

What is the source for what you posted here?

 

Yes I did. But I guess I missed it. Which post did you tell how I can see the gospel in the stars?

 

Webdog, many people aside from myself have looked at the so-called "evidence," and there isn't any except was came through those guys in the 1800s, which has not been validated and is not from the Bible.

The context of the passages in which the constellations are mentioned!

I think you know that a book or person quoted or referred to in the Bible does not mean we can trust it, only that part which is quoted to in the Bible. Sometimes a reference is just a reference to the existence of something.

Certainly we are not to suddenly add the book of Jasher to our Bible now! This reminds me so much of the book of Enoch issue.

 

...so He mentions two constellations by name...just to show Job he's the creator? Kind of odd.

The above bolded is what you added to both things in the text, the heavens, and the sky. Which proclaims which?

Why does "via the constellation" have to be in there? As a fellow dispy, these are the same arguments we both refute of our amill friends. Since Scripture doesn't contradict, Psalm 19 points to Romans 10 and vice versa. Paul, in context, was speaking of the Gospel having gone out to all the world...not "general revelation", but that which is preached...the Good News.