Accountable to God

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Lorelei, Feb 27, 2003.

  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Last night I heard a preacher say that He is going to be accountable to God for every sermon he has ever preached. We, as christians, are going to be held accountable to God for the things we do.

    Where does the Bible teach this?

    Thanks

    ~Lorelei
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    "But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak they shall give an account of it in the day of judgment."
    Matthew 12:36

    "So, then, every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
    Romans 14:12

    "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves; for they that watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief; for that is unprofitable to you."
    Hebrews 13:17

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  3. Lorelei

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    Sue,

    Thanks, those were exactly what I was looking for. Now I am even more confused. On judgment day are we giving an account for what we do for our justification? I thought we would not be judged if we were covered by the blood of Christ. Our justification comes from Christ yet Matthew says this.

    We know we are justified in Christ, but this has some relevance. I guess I need to study further on "judgment day." Anyone have some scriptures that can clarify what will happen on judgment day?

    I am really just trying to rightly divide the Word of Truth here.

    Again, Thanks.

    ~Lorelei
     
  4. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Ok, let me try asking this way.

    For a saved person, in what way are they held accountable to God for their actions?

    If we are reconciled to God through Christ, and therefore He is not counting our sins against us, what then is held against us.

    Define "accountable." When I hear the word "accountable" I think that we will have some debt to pay if we goof up. I am accountable for my son's actions. If he damages a person's property I have to "pay" that debt for him. I am accountable for money at work, if any is lost, I have to "pay" that debt. Am I misunderstanding what accountable means?

    How can we be "accountable" for sins that aren't held against us? What, then, are we accountable for? What is the punishment for sin commited by a saved person? Will God "judge" us for that sin on judgment day, if so, how?

    ~Lorelei
     
  5. christine

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    The blood of Jesus on the cross, paid for your sins.
    Judgement day is when we will be rewarded, or not rewarded, for being a good christian.
    "Good works" are not sincere, they are things people do for show, to impress, not because it's the right thing to do. They are not from the heart.
    The bible says all of our works will be tested with fire and the "good works" will go up in flames.
    Basically, once we are saved we are always saved, but if we don't live as a good christian, then we will get no rewards on judgement day.
     
  6. Rick Sr.

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    Lorelai: I think these verses mean that , when we are standing in front of God on Judgement Day, He will ask things of us, such as,Why didn't you help that elderly person across the street so you could share the gospel with her? Or things like this. We are not going to be punished for these because we are covered with the Blood, but, to be embarassed in front of God and everybody? This is what I think it is, so don't hold this as gospel. Rick Sr. [​IMG]
     
  7. christine

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    1 Corinthians 3:8 , 3:13-15 Talk's about our work being judged. It also says that our works are judged, but that we will still be saved.
     
  8. Lorelei

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    I just have a problem with that reasoning. It almost sounds like, Salvation is by grace, not of works lest any man should boast and yet so man can boast, his rewards will be based upon works. I don't think we are rewarded for being a "good" christian. Paul said in one of His letters that the people he was writing to were his crown. I don't see being good as a work. I see souls saved as the only work that seems to account for anything, and playing any part of that process, the seed planter or a waterer is important.

    One thing that really bothers me is the concept that we will be "embarassed" when we get to heaven without our rewards. First of all, this encourages people to go about doing "good" things (as man defines it) in order to get a reward. I do not beleive that this mentality will be rewarded. Secondly, I read about a heaven where there will be no more hunger, or thirst, or sorrow, or pain and yet I am told I am going to be "embarassed?" That embarassment would surely cause me to cry. We are human and God already knows that we are not perfect. Because He knows this, He had to send His Son to die for us. I don't believe He is surprised at my shortcomings nor is He waiting for me to get to heaven so he can make me feel like a fool.

    He has promised me He is not going to remember my sins, in fact He has forgotten them, so if he can't remember them, how can he hold me accountable for them?

    I don't know why so many people invision God as the judge, or at the least the principal. We think we are going to be called into his office as soon as we get to heaven to be scolded for all the stupid things we have done. I picture God who will see, not me, but my snowy white gown, made clean by the blood of His Son and welcome me with open arms. I won't be worrying about how big or small my crown is, nor will I know who had a bigger one than me. I will bow down at His feet and worship Him and whatever reward I get will be at His feet, not on my head.


    ~Lorelei
     
  9. Doubting Thomas

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    Lorelei,
    Also check out 2 Cor 5:9-10.
    Peace
     
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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  11. HankD

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    Dear Lorelei,

    The bottom line…

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    But, yes, some of us will be ashamed at His coming…

    1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

    "ashamed" is NOT "condemned".

    The remedy for His little children is to "abide in Him". Not a difficult thing.

    Matthew 11
    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
     
  12. Lorelei

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    No where in the context does it say that the tears were wiped because we had been rebuked. I see it as whatever tears we used to have are wiped away and now we will cry no more. We can't know for sure what tears were wiped, that much is speculation. Neither of our interpretations is explicitly stated.

    Though it says we will be accountable, we have invisioned this scene in our heads based more upon speculation than what actual scripture says.

    I see the Great White Throne Judgment where you are judged based upon whether or not your name is in the book of life. Those who are not will be judged according to what they have done. It never says anything there about us, except that our names were in the book of life.

    The judgment seat mentioned in Romans 14 is the beema seat. From what I have read this was a Roman custom sort of like the award ceremony at sporting events. You came before the beema seat to get your rewards. The significance here, is that people were happy upon receiving awards. The only unhappiness in award ceremonies comes from those who didn't get the prize they wanted. I don't think in heaven our thoughts will be that selfish. I think we would all be glad for each other. Of course in heaven, the focus won't even be on the prize, but on the one who is awarding them.

    I don't sit around and focus on what prize I am going to get, nor do I worry about how embarassed I am going to be in heaven. I go about doing the work of my Lord because it pleases Him. Anything I do outside of the Spirit is in the flesh anyway, and the flesh will not be rewarded. Any reward I receive will be because I was walking in the Spirit and so it will be His works, not mine that are rewarded. So there is nothing I can do to win God's favor. In the end, it's all Him, crown and all.

    ~Lorelei
     
  13. Lorelei

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    HankD,

    I respectfully disagree with the context of 1 John. If you look at the context you will see John was clearly showing them how to know if they were truly in Christ or not. If this is not the context, we have a very works oriented salvation.

    Those who are going to be ashamed are the ones who loved the world and were not keeping His commandments. Those, we know from the text never had the truth in them, they were liars.

    In short, be sure you know Him, if you do know Him you will be following the gospel as taught by the apostles, not falling prey to the teachings of the many antichrists. If you fall prey to them, you were never one of us.

    So who will be ashamed? Those who fell prey and went out from among us because they were not of us. They will one day bow before Christ and confess that He is Lord and will be ashamed that they had never truly believed it before.

    ~Lorelei
     
  14. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    This is strictly my own interpretation. I have no scripture to back this up. [​IMG]

    I am not sure the rebuking will come from God.

    I think the tears will be from seeing our loved ones and others, (whom we had a chance to witness to and did not), thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    I think the rebuke will come from our own hearts as we see them point their fingers at us accusingly and ask us why didn't we ever tell them about Jesus.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  15. Lorelei

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    I am aware of this and you are certainly not alone in your interpretation. I have been taught this, have heard it preached from the pulpits. I guess I am just realizing that this is indeed an interpretational teaching, not something that is based upon scripture. I guess I am upset that I have I have been taught it as "fact" rather than for what it is. Now I am trying to rightfully divide the Word of Truth and I can see this isn't something that will be answered by quoting one verse. There is so much more I have to learn and oh the joy that comes from learning it! I love getting into His Word!

    I would say that the thought of our loved ones being thrown into the lake of fire would indeed be a possible reason for the tears, though I would not add in because I felt guilty for not having told them. In the end, we are all responsible for own decisions, otherwise I would be the one cast in and they would be in heaven by default.

    I will still be motivated and encouraged to share the gospel without the guilt trip. We should all be sharing the good news, for God is indeed a loving God and wants us in heaven in spite of our short comings. My life here on earth is an opportunity for God to mold and shape me into the person He wants me to be. I will continue to enjoy the journey and look forward to being with Him. As Paul was eager to depart and be with the Lord, I too want nothing more than to be in the prescence of my Lord! Until then, I am enjoying getting to know Him and learning about what things will be like when I get there.

    God Bless

    ~Lorelei
     
  16. HankD

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    No problem. I see your point [​IMG]

    HankD
     
  17. HankD

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    Dear Lorelei,

    This is NOT a challenge but a question for you.
    I have heard all these things as well and wondered about it.
    Especially in 1 Corinthians 3.
    The Church of Rome uses this passage to promote the dogma of purgatory.
    How do you view this Scripture?
    Especially verse 15.

    1 corinthians 3
    10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    Thanks
    HankD
     
  18. Lorelei

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    HankD,

    Actually, it is a challenging passage, but I know with what heart you asked the question. [​IMG] I am not pretending to have all the answers. This question has been laying on my mind a lot recently and I am really wanting to grasp it all. I spent a few hours talking to a friend about this topic and we spent a lot of time discussing these particular passages.

    I am not sure what to suffer loss and escaping as one through the flames means. I honestly don't. I can tell you what I think is significant in trying to understand it.

    We know that the Corinthians were a carnal church, not ready for the meat of the word yet. In the context here we see that they were probably bragging about their works and with whom they were affiliated. "I follow Paul, I follow Apollos", that sort of reasoning.

    We then see Paul reminding them that each job is important, but only God can give the increase. My friend shared with me last night, think about how much work goes into planting a seed. You have to till the ground, prepare the soil and the bury the seed. You don't just throw it on the ground and walk away. Yet, when a person who is merely watering that seed comes along and actually sees the growth...say the person actually accepts the Lord....they then try to take the credit for that job. As we see in chapter 12, all gifts are just as important as the other, but these folks were focusing on who was more important, what job was better. Paul said, that all the work is important, but only God makes the work produce anything.

    We then get to these passages. The most important thing is that nothing can be built without the foundation and that foundation must be Christ. He then says that we must be careful how we build on it. First of all, what are they "building?" Paul said he lays the foundation but another builds on it. I think this is speaking of the church, us as the body of Christ. Now, if we are doing works for the body of Christ, the church, they are going to affect another's life.

    As I have pointed out, I think Paul is concerned with the motive to which they are building this. Maybe Paul is pointing out here that our works will be revealed for what they really are. We may think we are building a church out of gold and yet since our heart wasn't really in the right place, it may burn up as stubble. Certainly no one would purposely build a house out of something that wouldn't stand. Here Paul tells them, your heart will be revealed, the motive for which your works were done will be clearly seen. As I mentioned before, I think any work done in the flesh and not in the Spirit will be burned. It won't be rewarded.

    So what about that suffering loss? You lost what you had built, it's gone now. That is probably too simplistic. Maybe your reward is all burned up, and you lost that, but this does suggest suffering. I don't know.

    As escaping through the flames, well I surely don't see purgatory! I never have understood this passage, even when I thought I was going to be humiliated before God when I got there.

    Another point I can't grasp. People who say they can lose their salvation have no way of knowing or explaining at which point it is gone. No where in scripture tells us what the "final straw" is when dealing with salvation. I also don't see just how many works require a crown, or how much of our works in the flesh will undo what works were done in the Spirit.

    I am trying to reconcile this passage (and a few others) with what I do know from the Bible. I am learning and studying each day, and I am not afraid to admit, I just don't know. That doesn't mean that I am not studying and prayerfully seeking the answer, but I don't have one now.

    Until then, I am not going to replace that uncertainty with a doctrine that may turn out to be false. I know that you are well aware how difficult it is to get through to someone who is reading their doctrine into a passage, rather than getting their doctrine out of it. I don't see this one passage as enough evidence that God is going to list all the things I "should have done" so that I will feel horrible in His prescence. Paul longed to be with Christ, for that is FAR Better. He never said, "well after you get chewed out."

    Think about the parable of the prodigal son. Remember how the Father welcomed him with open arms? What works did he do to deserve such a splendid homecoming? He expected to be chewed out, but was he?

    Anyway, thanks for the question. Trying to explain it has helped me to sort out these thoughts a little bit anyway. Feel free to share any passages that you may think are significant. I don't want to just skip over them because they may be difficult, I want to truly know what ALL the Word has to say on the subject!

    God Bless

    ~Lorelei
     
  19. HankD

    HankD
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    Dear Lorelei,

    You responded...
    No, he was not. You are correct Lorelei.

    Perhaps the loss will be when those who have prided themselves as being something realize (when they see Him as He is) that their "service" was fleshy.

    He is what it is all about anyway.

    Genesis 15:1 ... Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

    God bless you and your beautiful little one.

    HankD
     
  20. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Perhaps, definately worth pondering!

    Thanks so much for the thoughts, He is indeed what it is all about!

    ~Lorelei
     

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