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Accuracy and Precision

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Craigbythesea, Jan 24, 2004.

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  1. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I enjoy driving. Power and performance on a well built road in a well built car can be an amazingly exhilarating experience. For less than $10,000 you can buy a 2004 Hyundai Accent, or for more than $300,000 you can buy a 2004 Bentley Arnage T.

    2004 Bentley Arnage T

    Maximum power: 450 bhp
    Maximum torque: 645 lb-ft.
    Maximum speed: 168 mph
    Acceleration: 0-60 5.5 seconds
    Overall length: 17ft 8.2 in
    Overall width: 6ft 11.75 in
    Weight: 5699 lb

    Either one of these two cars will take you to the market and back, but nonetheless the difference between these two cars is like the difference between night and day—and unfortunately so is the difference in price.

    I also enjoy reading the Bible. Accuracy and precision in reading a translation of the Bible can also be an amazingly exhilarating experience. The four Gospels are full of action that when accurately and precisely translated bring Jesus, his disciples, and the other characters right up off the page before your eyes almost as though you are actually right there with them. The Book of Romans becomes a personal, intimate, life-changing document. For less than $75 you can buy a beautifully crafted Good News Bible with a genuine top grain cowhide leather cover, or for the same price you can buy a beautifully crafted New American Standard Bible with a genuine top grain cowhide leather cover. If you are on a tight budget you can buy either of these two translations second hand in a thrift store for less than $5.

    Either one of these two translations will show you “the main message of the Bible that God loves us and has provided eternal life for us through Jesus Christ,” but nonetheless the differences between these two translations of the Bible is like the difference between night and day—and fortunately there is no difference in price.

    Being able to buy a New American Standard Bible for the same price as a Good News Bible or The Message paraphrased Bible is even better than being able to buy a 2004 Bentley Arnage T for the same price as a 2004 Hyundai Accent. Most certainly if I could buy a 2004 Bentley Arnage T for less than $10,000, I would buy one today!
     
    #1 Craigbythesea, Jan 24, 2004
  2. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    Does anyone give any of those away?

    I mean, I know people and ministries that will gladly give you a King James Bible at no cost, why even a New Testament and an Old Testament of the King James in Hebrew in a nice, hard-bound cover, even arranged in Hebrew fashion. But I have NEVER seen anyone giving those "copyrighted" books away.

    Now I am not neglecting the facts that many do sell the King James, but why don't we ever see people having an abundant supply of those "copyrighted"/mv's, given freely to anyone who requests them?

    Hmmm? Reckon God holds the copyright to the King James and readily makes it available for free? Yes.

    Now please don't start that "printer's rights" arguement that it is really a copyright.

    I'm just offering some simple logic to determine what the Word of God is, and what it's not.

    Printer's rights are on the type face/font of the printed page, NOT the content of the pages as the original thoughts of the writer. Hmmm? Why then do these "books" maintain a copyright? Maybe, just maybe, now, it has to with the fact they are the thoughts of men as they are construed and some what contradictory to God's Word we find so perfectly preserved in our King james Bible, even the littlest of devils object.

    Why settle for a costly book, when you can have the Bible for free?

    Yall hash it out, meanwhile I'll be partaking of the Lord's provision in my King James Bible. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #2 Precepts, Jan 24, 2004
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Good analogy.

    And not all "English translations" are of equal accuracy and faithfulness to the Word of God. I have one that ADDS hundreds of words not in any Greek document as well as entire extra books!

    Gotta watch 'em all.
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, Jan 24, 2004
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    My first copy of the NASB New Testament was given to me by a man that gave away Bibles. When I read it and saw how good it was, I bought a whole Bible in the NASB—the best investment that I ever made. My $125 unabridged dictionary was getting worn out looking up words like these in my KJV:

    abjects (Psalm 35:15)
    agone (1 Sam. 30:13)
    ague (Lev. 26:16)
    algum (2 Chron. 2:8; 9:10, 11)
    almug (1 Kings 10:11, 12)
    blains (Exod. 9:9, 10)
    bolled (Exod. 9:31)
    botch (Deut. 28:27, 35)
    brigandine (Jer. 46:4; 51:3)
    bruit (Jer. 10:22; Nahum 3:19)
    buckler (2 Sam. 22:31; 1 Chron. 5:18; 12:8; Psalm 18:2, 30; etc.)
    cab (2 Kings 6:25)
    cauls (Isa. 3:18)
    chapiter (1 Kings 7:16)
    chapmen (2 Chron. 9:14)
    chapt (Jer. 14:4)
    cast clouts (Jer. 38:11, 12)
    chode (Gen. 31:36; Num. 20:3)
    cieled (2 Chron. 3:5; Jer. 22:14; Ezek. 41:16; Hag. 1:4)
    clouted (Josh. 9:5)
    college (2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chron. 34:22)
    cogitations (Dan. 7:28)
    collops (Job 15:27)
    cormorant (Lev. 11:17; Deut. 14:17; Isa. 34:11; Zeph. 2:14)
    cotes (2 Chron. 32:28)
    coulter (1 Sam. 13:20)
    countervail (Esther 7:4)
    cracknels (1 Kings 14:3)
    crisping pins (Isa. 3:22)
    cruse (1 Sam. 26:11, 12, 16; 1 Kings 14:3; 17:12, 14, 16; etc.)
    daysman (Job 9:33)
    discomfited, be (Isa. 31:8)
    emerods (Deut. 28:27; 1 Sam. 5:6, 9, 12; 6:4, 5, 11, 17)
    environ (Josh. 7:9)
    exactors (Isa. 60:17)
    fitches (Ezek. 4:9)
    flagons (Song 2:5)
    fray (Deut. 28:26; Jer. 7:33; Zech. 1:21)
    froward (Deut. 32:20; 2 Sam. 22:27; Job. 5:13; etc.)
    gat (Gen. 19:27; Exod. 24:18; Num. 11:30)
    habergeon (Exod. 28:32; 39:23; Job 41:26)
    hap (Ruth 2:3)
    helve (Deut. 19:5)
    horseleech (Prov. 30:15)
    hosen (Dan. 3:21)
    hough(ed) (Josh. 11:6, 9; 2 Sam. 8:4; 1 Chron. 18:4)
    kine (Gen. 32:15; 41:2, 3, 4, 18, 19, 20, 26, 27; Deut. 7:13; etc.)
    leasing (Psalm 4:2; 5:6)
    ligure (Exod. 28:19; 39:12)
    mete (Exod. 16:18; Psalm 60:6)
    meteyard (Lev. 19:35)
    minished (Psalm 107:39)
    munition(s) (Isa. 29:7; 33:16; Nahum 2:1)
    neesings (Job 41:18)
    nether (Deut. 24:6)
    occurrent (1 Kings 5:4)
    ouches (Exod. 28:11, 13, 14, 25; 39:6, 13, 16, 18)
    pilled (Gen. 30:37, 38)
    plat (2 Kings 9:26)
    poll(ed) (2 Sam. 14:26; Ezek. 44:20; Micah 1:16)
    pommels (2 Chron. 4:12, 13)
    purtenance (Exod. 12:9)
    ribband (Num. 15:38)
    ring-straked (Gen. 30:35, 39, 40; 31:8, 10, 12)
    savor (Song 1:3)
    scrip (1 Sam. 17:40)
    sever (Exod. 9:4)
    sod (Gen. 25:29; 2 Chron. 35:13)
    stacte (Exod. 30:34)
    taches (Exod. 26:6, 11, 33; 35:11; 36:13, 18; 39:33)
    trode (Judg. 9:27; 20:43; 2 Kings 7:17; 9:33; 14:9; 2 Chron. 25:18)
    wimples (Isa. 3:22)
    wist not (Exod. 16:15; 34:29; Lev. 5:17; etc.)
    wit (Gen. 24:21; Exod. 2:4)
    wot (Gen. 21:26; 44:15; Exod. 32:1, 23; Num. 22:6; Josh. 2:5)
    wotteth (Gen. 39:8)

    :confused:
     
    #4 Craigbythesea, Jan 24, 2004
  5. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    At our church, we give copies of the Message New Testament, the NIV Bible, or a youth study Bible in CEV I believe, to visitors, so I guess that disproves your point.
     
    #5 ScottEmerson, Jan 24, 2004
  6. LRL71

    LRL71 New Member

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    I've also seen NKJV Gideon's Bibles in hotel rooms where I've travelled! Another KJV-only myth disproved! WOOOOOOOOOOOW! [​IMG]
     
    #6 LRL71, Jan 25, 2004
  7. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    #7 tinytim, Jan 25, 2004
  8. Archangel7

    Archangel7 New Member

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    The Gideons International has been giving away free copies of the NASB for years. Next time you stay in a hotel room, look for the free Gideons NASB -- the one which clearly says "this book not to be sold" in the preface material.
     
    #8 Archangel7, Jan 25, 2004
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Wouldn'tcha know some KJVO would bring up the copyrights issue again! They simply cannot offer any fresh material because they're working from a dead issue. The only fresh thing about dead is freshly dead. But KJVO has been dead from its inception.

    Let me assure you that every copy of the KJV ever made was paid for by someone somewhere, same as is true for every copy of every Bible, regardless of the version. The Gideons place Bibles in hotel rooms that neither guests nor hotel owners pay for, BUT THEY'RE NOT FREE! The Gideons themselves pay for each & every one!

    The KJV is public domain in the USA because of its age. So are the earlier Bible versions, for the same reason. So are the works of human authors of several hundred years ago. If Jesus' return is not in the immediate future, the current MVs will eventually also become public domain-and printers will still print them if a market still exists for them. If there were no market for the KJV, it wouldn't be printed any more-plain & simple.

    The copyrights thing is another poor KJVO attempt to distract us from the fact that they have no evidence to support their myth.
     
    #9 robycop3, Jan 25, 2004
  10. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Archangel,

    What you say is true, but only in Canada, or maybe in other countries, too, but anyway, not in the USA.

    The Gideon Bibles in the states are not NASB, but KJV.

    I've got several cute little red NASB Gideon NT's lying aroung the house that my kids got in 5th grad in school.

    Of course, the difference in versions in different countries has nothing to do with copyright, but everything to do with the a certain attitude toward the KJV that is more common in the states.
     
    #10 russell55, Jan 25, 2004
  11. Refreshed

    Refreshed Member
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    You get more than what you pay for! What a deal!

    Jason
     
    #11 Refreshed, Jan 25, 2004
  12. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    I hope this isn't the effort to show us your intelligence
    :rolleyes:
     
    #12 Precepts, Jan 25, 2004
  13. Precepts

    Precepts New Member

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    #13 Precepts, Jan 25, 2004
  14. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I hope this isn't the effort to show us your intelligence
    :rolleyes:     </font>[/QUOTE]No, I have an I.Q. of 195, a Ph.D. in linguistics from Stanford, a Th.D. from Princeton, and I am fluent in 14 languages including English, but I still don’t know the early 17th century meaning of half of the words in this list even though I have read through the KJV 50 or 60 times. How many of the words in this list do you know the early 17th century meaning of?
     
    #14 Craigbythesea, Jan 25, 2004
  15. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    All of them. Just as I also know the meaning of all the supposedly incomprehensible words in the ERV, ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV, etc. You see, I don't have an aversion to dictionaries. [​IMG]
     
    #15 skanwmatos, Jan 25, 2004
  16. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    All of them. Just as I also know the meaning of all the supposedly incomprehensible words in the ERV, ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV, etc. You see, I don't have an aversion to dictionaries. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]That's great! What dictionaries did you use to learn the early 17th century meaning of all of the words in the KJV?
     
    #16 Craigbythesea, Jan 25, 2004
  17. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    Here is a list of some words from the KJV that I have tracked down the early 17th century meaning to:

    "abased" (Matt. 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18:14) then meant "humbled"
    "abide" (Acts 20:23) then meant "await"
    "acquaintance" (Luke 2:44; 23:49; Acts 24:23) then meant "acquaintances"
    "admiration" (Rev. 17:6) then meant "wonder"
    "affections" (Gal. 5:24) then meant "passions"
    "again" (Matt. 27:3; Luke 14:6) then meant "back"
    "allege" (Acts 17:3) then meant present "evidence"
    "allow" (Luke 11:48; Rom. 14:22; 1 Thes. 2:4) then meant "approve"
    "amazement" (1 Pet. 3:6) then meant "terror"
    "amend" (John 4:52) then meant "mend"
    "answer" (2 Tim. 4:16) then meant "defense"
    "approve" (2 Cor. 6:4; 7:11) then meant "commend" or "prove"
    "assay" (Acts 9:26; 16:7; Heb. 11:29) then meant "essay" or "attempt"
    "attendance" (1 Tim. 4:13) then meant "attention"
    "base" (1 Cor. 1:28; 2 Cor. 10:1) then meant "lowly"
    "behind" (Col. 1:24) then meant "lacking"
    "bewitched" (Acts 8:9, 11) then meant "astonished"
    "by and by" (Matt. 13:21; Mark 6:25; Luke 17:7; 21:9) then meant "immediately"
    "careful" (Luke 10:41; Phil. 4:6) then meant "anxious"
    "charged" (1 Tim. 5:16) then meant "burdened"
    "charger" (Matt. 14:8, 11; Mark 6:25, 28) then meant "platter"
    "charity" (1 Cor. 8:1; 13:1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13; etc.) then meant "love"
    "charitably" (Rom. 14:15) then meant "in love"
    "communicate" (Gal. 6:6; Phil. 4:14, 15; 1 Tim. 6:18; Heb. 13:16) then meant "share"
    "communications" (Cor. 15:33) then meant "companionship"
    "concluded" (Rom. 11:32; Gal. 3:22) then meant "shut up"
    "conscience" (1 Cor. 8:7; Heb. 10:2) then meant "consciousness"
    "convenient" (Rom. 1:28; Eph. 5:4; Phlm. 8) then meant "fitting" or "proper"
    "conversation" (2 Cor. 1:12; Gal. 1:13; Eph. 2:3; etc.) then meant "manner of life" or "conduct"
    "corn" (Matt. 12:1; Mark 2:23; 4:28; etc.) then meant "grain"
    "countries" (Luke 21:21) then meant "country"
    "country, a" (John 11:54) then meant "the country"
    "damnation" (Matt. 23:14; Mark 12:40; Luke 20:47; etc.) then meant "condemnation" or "judgment" (1 Cor. 11:29)
    "damned" (Mark 16:16; Rom. 14:23; 2 Thes. 2:12) then meant "condemned" or "judged"
    "delicately" (Luke 7:25) then meant "luxuriously"
    "deliciously" (Rev. 18:7, 9) then meant "wantonly"
    "doubtful" (Luke 12:29) then meant "anxious"
    "draught" (Matt. 15:17; Mark 7:19) then meant "drain"
    "earnestly" (Luke 22:56; Acts 23:1) then meant "carefully" or "steadfastly" or "intently"
    "ensue" (1 Pet. 3:11) then meant "pursue"
    "entreat(ed)" (Matt. 22:6; Luke 18:32; 20:11; etc.) then meant "treat(ed)"
    "estate" (Acts 22:5) then meant "council"
    "estates" (Mark 6:21) then meant "men of nobility or rank"
    "ever, or" (Acts 23:15) then meant "before"
    "evidently" (Acts 10:3) then meant "clearly" or "openly" (Gal. 3:1)
    "fame" (Matt. 4:24; 9:26, 31; 14:1; Mark 1:28; etc.) then meant "report" or "repute"
    "feeble-minded" (1 Thes. 5:14) then meant "fainthearted"
    "forward" (2 Cor. 8:10, 17; Gal. 2:10) then meant "ready" or "eager"
    "frankly" (Luke 7:42) then meant "freely"
    "furnished" (Matt. 22:10) then meant "filled"
    "go beyond" (1 Thes. 4:6) then meant "transgress"
    "good" (1 Jn. 3:17) then meant "goods"
    "goodman" (Matt. 20:11; 24:43; Mark 14:14; etc.) then meant "master"
    "governor" (James 3:4) then meant "pilot"
    "grudge" (James 5:9; 1 Pet. 4:9) then meant "grumble"
    "guilty" (Matt. 23:18) then meant "bound"
    "hardly" (Matt. 19:23) then meant "with difficulty"
    "instant" (Luke 23:23) then meant "insistent," or "constant" (Rom. 12:12), or "urgent" (2 Tim. 4:2)
    "keep under" (1 Cor. 9:27) then meant "buffet"
    "lade" (Luke 11:46) then meant "load"
    "large" (Matt. 28:12) then meant "much"
    "lewd" (Acts 17:5) then meant "wicked"
    "lewdness" (Acts 18:14) then meant "villainy"
    "listed" (Matt. 17:12; Mark 9:13) then meant "wished"
    "listeth" (John 3:8; James 3:4) then meant "wishes"
    "lively" (Acts 7:38; 1 Pet. 1:3; 2:5) then meant "living"
    "loft" (Acts 20:9) then meant "story"
    "marred" (Mark 2:22) then meant "destroyed"
    "meat" (Matt. 3:4; 6:25; 10:10; 15:37; 24:45; etc.) then meant "food"
    "minister" (Luke 4:20) then meant "attendant"
    "minstrels" (Matt. 9:23) then meant "flute players"
    "motions" (Rom. 7:5) then meant "passions"
    "observed him" (Mark 6:20) then meant "kept him safe"
    "occupy" (Luke 19:13) then meant "trade"
    "other" (John 21:2; Acts 15:2; 2 Cor. 13:2; Phil. 2:3) then meant "others"
    "other some" (Acts 17:18) then meant "some others"
    "overcharge(d)" (Luke 21:34; 2 Cor. 2:5) then meant "over burden(ed)"
    "particularly" (Acts 21:19; Heb. 9:5) then meant "in detail"
    "pitiful" (1 Pet. 3:8) then meant "merciful"
    "presently" (Matt. 21:19; 26:53; Phil. 2:23) then meant "immediately"
    "pressed out of" (2 Cor. 1:8) then meant "oppressed beyond"
    "prevent" (1 Thes. 4:15) then meant "precede"
    "prevented" (Matt. 17:25) then meant "spoke first to"
    "profited" (Gal. 1:14) then meant "advanced"
    "profiting" (1 Tim. 4:15) then meant "progress"
    "proper" (Acts 1:19; 1 Cor. 7:7) then meant "own" or "beautiful" (Heb. 11:23)
    "quick" (Heb. 4:12) then meant "living"
    "quit you" (1 Cor. 16:13) then meant "conduct yourselves"
    "reason" (Acts 6:2) then meant "reasonable"
    "record" (John 1:19; Acts 20:26; 2 Cor. 1:23; Phil. 1:8) then meant "witness"
    "respect, had" (Heb. 11:26) then meant "looked"
    "room" (Matt. 2:22; Luke 14:7, 8, 9, 10; Acts 24:27; 1 Cor. 14:16) then meant "place"
    "sardine" (Rev. 4:3) then meant "sardius"
    "scrip" (Matt. 10:10; Mark 6:8; Luke 9:3; 10:4; etc.) then meant "bag"
    "secondarily" (1 Cor. 12:28) then meant "secondly"
    "sentence" (Acts 15:19) then meant "judgment"
    "several" (Matt. 25:15) then meant "particular"
    "shamefacedness" (1 Tim. 2:9) then meant "modesty" or "propriety"
    "shape" (John 5:37) then meant "form"
    "should" (Acts 23:27) then meant "would"
    "sincere" (1 Pet. 2:2) then meant "pure"
    "strange" (Acts 26:11) then meant "foreign"
    "strangers of" (Acts 2:10) then meant "visitors from"
    "string" (Mark 7:35) then meant "band"
    "study" (1 Thes. 4:11; 2 Tim. 2:15) then meant "strive"
    "tables" (Luke 1:63; 2 Cor. 3:3) then meant "tablets"
    "take no thought" (Matt. 6:25, 28, 31, 34; 10:19; Luke 12:11, 22, 26) then meant "be not anxious"
    "taking thought" (Matt. 6:27; Luke 12:25) then meant "being anxious"
    "temperance" (Acts 24:25; Gal. 5:23; 2 Pet. 1:6) then meant "self-control"
    "temperate" (1 Cor. 9:25; Tit. 1:8) then meant "self- controlled"
    "translated" (Col. 1:13; Heb. 11:5) then meant "transferred"

    But how about those people who still have not learned the early 17th century meaning for all these words? I can just imagine how difficult the KJV is for them to understand. And all of these words are from the New Testament. How about the Old Testament? Why should the Bible be more difficult to read than a post-doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics?
     
    #17 Craigbythesea, Jan 25, 2004
  18. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    Not only the words in the KJV but the words in the modern versions too. Such as "purslane" found in the RSV, and a whole long list from the "easy to read" NIV such as carnelian,, cors, denarius, drachmas, goiim, hoopoe, ibex, mina, overweening, porphyry, revening, satraps, sistrums, stadia, and terebinth. Now there's a list of words we use in every day conversation! :D

    Okay, seriously, I like the Oxford English Dictionary because of its philology section which gives the meanings of the words as they have come down from Old English, through Middle English, and into Modern English. There are some other dictionaries which give archaic meanings but the OED is most concise.
     
    #18 skanwmatos, Jan 25, 2004
  19. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    You make a good point! Why should the NIV be more difficult to read than a post-doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics? :D [​IMG]
     
    #19 skanwmatos, Jan 25, 2004
  20. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    You make a good point! Why should the NIV be more difficult to read than a post-doctoral thesis on quantum mechanics? :D [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]It's not! It's written at the 7th grade reading level. I posted many words from the KJV New Testament that are difficult for an English professor. Can you post that many from the NIV that are difficult even for a 12 year old?
     
    #20 Craigbythesea, Jan 25, 2004
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