Active players who will make the Hall of Fame

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Andy T., Jul 19, 2007.

  1. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Here is a quick and dirty list of those players who will (or who I think) should make the Hall, even if their careers were to end today:

    A-Rod
    Jeter
    R. Johnson
    Glavine
    Maddux
    Smoltz
    Clemens
    M. Rivera
    F. Thomas
    Griffey Jr.
    Sosa???
    Bonds???
    Pudge Rodriguez
    M. Ramirez
    Biggio
    Schilling
    T. Hoffman
    Pedro Martinez
    Piazza (I think he tends to be overrated - was never good defensively)
    J. Thome (close - needs just a handful more homers)
    Vizquel (close - he is marginal at this point; I think he gets in)
    Lofton (a good case can be made for him - marginal)

    Others that need just a couple more seasons and they are in:

    Vlad Guer.
    C. Delgado
    Jeff Kent (needs to finish strong - right now he is not in)
    Mussina (not looking good at this point - the Don Sutton of his era without as impressive career stats to date)

    Who have I missed? No "Freehans" or Nettles like players, please.

    (It's good to be moderator!) - Tom
     
    #1 Andy T., Jul 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2007
  2. TomVols

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    You have some good candidates and some laughable ones. It may be next week before I can get to this list. Let's not get too much into this now, since I won't be able to take it up with you til next week, but Davey and Omar are so comparable it isn't even funny, and you reject Davey but embrace Omar? If I posted the numbers anonymous (without attaching to the player) you wouldn't tell the difference.
     
    #2 TomVols, Jul 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2007
  3. ccrobinson

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    It's funny how one guy says they're requirements to make the HoF are so much tougher than another's, then that same guy says Omar Vizquel. :smilewinkgrin:

    Omar Vizquel? Um... no. I agree with Tom.
    Kenny Lofton? No.
    Jim Thome? No.
    Mike Mussina? No.

    Here's a couple of guys that need more than a couple of years, but if they have another good, say, 5 years, they'll make it.

    Johan Santana
    Albert Pujols
     
  4. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    O.k., I'll take back Omar - I said he was marginal anyways. He's better than Davey, though. 11 Gold Gloves. If he doesn't get in, I'll be fine with it. I'd rather keep the standards high.

    Who else is laughable on the list and why?
     
  5. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    If Omar can play another year or two and inch closer to 3000 hits, then he is in with his 11 GG's. Like I said above - I'll take him back - I said he was marginal anyways. I think he'll get decent support, though. He has a lot of comparisons to Ozzie.

    Lofton I said a case can be made - not that I am the one making it for him.

    Thome I said needed a few more homers. If he gets to 525 or so, he is in. He has great OPS numbers.

    Mussina I said needed a couple more seasons. It looks like he's wearing down. He is close to 250 wins with a great winning percentage. He has impressive stats for pitching in a hitters era.

    So who are the laughable ones? Craig Nettles is laughable. Who on this list is outright laughable, considering the caveats I put in the OP?
     
    #5 Andy T., Jul 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2007
  6. TomVols

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    There's too much for me to tackle right now. Let me say that I don't think Omar is without his merits. However, if he's in, then Davey goes in easily. I've done the analysis and I'll share the numbers if I find them. I'm way too busy right now to redo it, but if I need to, I will.

    Contemporary players are difficult to evaluate simply because their body of work is incomplete. Given folks like Murph, Lew Burdette, etc., it's hard to evaluate a person based on "if their career ended today" especially when so many think you have to have 15 seasons or some such number just to be worthy of consideration.
     
  7. faithgirl46

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    what about Orel Hershiser?
    Faithgirl
     
  8. TomVols

    TomVols
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    Personally, I wouldn't vote for Orel. He had 3 or 4 great years, and then some terribly average or worse ones. 1 Cy Young, and the great streak in '88. I just don't think he was great enough long enough.
     
  9. TomVols

    TomVols
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    By the way, Andy, I'm still working on your list. I started doing a "Quick and Dirty" test, but I want to see where some of these guys rank in their era. I believe Clemens is a lock. Junior should be there. Bonds...too soon to tell. Do you induct someone who may be in prison?
     
  10. faithgirl46

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    You are probably right.
     
  11. EdSutton

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    Lew Burdette? Orel Hershiser? One should go in, but the other shouldn't??

    Uh, let's compare the numbers.
    LB - 18 yrs - 203 W, 144 L, 626 G, 3067 IP, 3186 H, 628 BB, 1074 K, 3.60 ERA.
    OH - 18 yrs - 204W, 150 L, 510 G, 3130 IP, 2939 H, 1007 BB, 2014 K, 3.48 ERA

    I dunno' but looks to me like one stacks up about like the other overall, with comparable numbers, except OH had better K numbers, and LB had better BB numbers. The rest are just too close, IMO.

    Unfortunately, 200 W for a starting pitcher, does not a HOF make, IMO.

    And LB was, along with Warren Spahn, and Bob Buhl, among my first pitching heroes, as a (then) Braves fan, and OH was among the later ones. And Joe Torre should be considered, before either Hershiser or Burdette, IMO.

    Ed
     
  12. TomVols

    TomVols
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    I didn't say Lew Burdette should go in. I just said I didn't think Orel should. What makes you think I think Burdette is a HOFer? I was just referring to him as an injured or shortened career guy. Others think he's HOF worthy. Truthfully, I've never done an era comparison with Burdette or Orel, though.
     
  13. TomVols

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    Torre.....I just don't know. I need to look at him closer.
     
  14. Pastor_Bob

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    Derrek Lee
    .337 BA this season
    .281 BA career
     
  15. EdSutton

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    Just working for George should get him halfway there. :laugh: :laugh:

    Joe's stats include a .297 BA; .365 OBP; .452 slg with 1185 RBI, as a hitter for 18 seasons and a better than average fielder at all three positions he played over 18 seasons in 2200+ games. I assume his playing stats should already get him to the door of the HOF. And he has won more games (including six pennants and four World Series in 12 seasons with the Yanks) as a manager than did either Casey Stengal or Miller Huggins, and is within 100 games of Joe McCarthy, and 130 of Bucky Harris, all Yankee managers who are enshrined already in the HOF.

    And, again, George should be able to supply the rest of the credentials for Joe. Think about it! Would you wanna' work for GS for 12 years and almost 1900 games?? :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  16. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
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    Uh, Pastor Bob? Please tell me your case for Derrek Lee as a future HoF'er isn't based on batting average alone. I don't see Lee as a future HoF'er, but I could be convinced. :)
     
  17. EdSutton

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    I'm not real sure about how much Lew Burdete's career was actually shortened. He did pitch 18 years in the bigs, until the age of 41yr, 8mos old. He may have had some injuries earlier than I am aware of, for his first two years in the big leagues, as he pitched in a total of 5 games those two years, but I do not know about being called up from the minors, or whatever, as that was before my time as a baseball fan. AND I am not greatly aware fo hte ending of his career after the braves, either, as we did not have a TV in those days and I was limited to listening to the radio occasionally, then. But it appears he was a mostly a regular starter from 1954 thru 1963. Before and after that, it seems he did time as a reliever and spot starter, according to the available stats, with his last two years entirely as a reliever. Hershiser only pitched until a month and a half longer than Burdette, himself, again making their careers not all that much different. I am neither advocating nor not advocating either for the HOF, but the names did come up, and I commented. But I would recommend Joe Torre (both as a manager and a player), as well as Buck O'Neil, Mark McGwire and a couple of others, also.

    Ed
     
    #17 EdSutton, Jul 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2007
  18. Andy T.

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    Orel is not a HOF'er. He's also not active. And neither are Torre or Lew Burdette, neither of which are HOF'ers. Torre will make the Hall for his managing career, though.
     
  19. Pastor_Bob

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    He is one of the best at his position. He is, in my opinion, one of the top 5 first basemen in the game today; probably the top 3. His fielding % is phenominal (.994) He is consistent, and even clutch at the plate.

    He was invaluable to Florida and is invaluable to the Cubs now. When he left last season with his injury, the Cubs went into a tailspin.
     
  20. TomVols

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    Derrek Lee isn't even close yet. No comparables in the Hall, and his MHOF is 39. However, I am not saying it's impossible for him. He needs to play another ten years and be the as good if not better than Pujols to get in. I don't consider him in the top 3, but I would probably consider him top 5. 5th best at your position in your era does not a HOFer make.

    Ed,
    When I said shortened, I used an unclear word. He was a good player who had a shortened great span, if you will. In that way, I kind of put him in the same boat as injury shortened guys to an extent. However, I will agree that for a while, Burdette was as dominant as any pitcher in his era. However, he wasn't dominant long enough (much like Orel).
     

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