Acts 13:48 My Favorite Verse in the Bible

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum
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    Acts 13:48. When the Gentiles heard this, they {began} rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    God knows who will believe, before they believe, before they are appointed in eternity past before all creation.

    Next, on the basis of God's foreknowledge He appoints them to eternal life in eternity past before all creation.

    So Important this next statement

    Note they don't even exist at this point - So from the human side - the person can't make the decision because they don't exist,

    But God knows He will exist and knows He will believe so He appoints that person back in eternity before any creation, and when that person hears the Gospel they believe.

    The election is on the basis of foreknowledge - so on that basis God elects or appoints and when they are born and at the time they hear the Gospel the first time or the 1000 time - whenever they believe they are saved.
    That simple - That easy - That Biblical.

    Don't you just love the Sovereign Grace of God. To God be the Glory.
    Acts 13:48 in one of my favorite verses in the Bible. Eternal Security 100 percent​
     
  2. Jarthur001

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    tasso ........to put in order, to station
    a) to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
    1) to assign (appoint) a thing to one
    b) to appoint, ordain, order
    1) to appoint on one's own responsibility or authority
    2) to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon
     
  3. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum
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    The order is great
    Before God has a thought - He knows He is going to have that thought and He knows before He knows that He knows what He knows. [ I don‘t understand it either] That is just the way it is.

    God has a thought to create in eternity
    God decides to create and designs a plan
    God completes His plan

    (within the plan are the nuts and bolts of which God knew before He knew) {He knew who would believe. He then appointed them to eternal life. Their salvation is sure from all eternity -Glory be to the Most High God}

    God starts His plan

    God speaks (Plan starts)

    Faster than I thought of it - it was and then is shaped in 6 days for all kinds of living creatures, one being two humans created in His image.

    A Plan

    Just think God knows every individual from beginning to end that would believe before they believed and on that basis appointed them to eternal life.

    When they are born and during their life they will believe freely. Their salvation is as sure as God's existence.

    Evangelism, no big deal, the blood washed saved hell bound sinners God is going to use to carry the message to all whom God already knows will be saved. We don’t know who but we are going to be the instruments He uses to give them the gospel by which they freely believe. Glory to our God and Savior Jesus Christ for Ever and Ever.

    What A Savior,
     
  4. l_PETE_l

    l_PETE_l
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    So basically God has no influence over His creation? He does not orchestrate events, just watches them unfold since He knows the ending?
     
  5. GordonSlocum

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    So are you saying that you don't believe God is Sovereign? Is that what you believe?
     
  6. l_PETE_l

    l_PETE_l
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    I was "saying" nothing, just asking questions.
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    Let's chase this rabbit:

    Gordon Slocum said:
    God has a thought to create in eternity
    God decides to create and designs a plan
    God completes His plan


    How does this square with God's immutability? For God to have a thought that he didn't have before represents a change. For God to decide something that up to that point he had not decided is a change.

    I borrow this from somebody who thought of it before I did: "Did it ever occur to you that nothing ever occurs to God?"

    What God thinks today he has always thought.

    I admit that this is deeper than I can grasp.








     
  8. Jarthur001

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    Wogwash.

    You said...

    Then you said..
    Which is it? Which was 1st?

    Is God's plan the driving force?

    Or is mans will the driving force?

    God knows, yes...because he planned it. This is called a decree
    God did not need to look and see what man would do. God knew ALL as God made man and made each of us as he wishes, and placed each of us in the world, at a place, in a time, where He saw fit to place us. It is His plan and design. I think He has done a good job. It is mans will that ALWAYS leads to sin.

    Give God the glory and stop lifting up mans power and will
     
  9. J.D.

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    This may seem innocent on the surface, but it really reveals the non-calvinists' delimma. They cannot describe the decrees without making God "decide" something. As if He must weigh options or wait for someone else to "decide" first.

    God does not decide - He wills.
     
  10. GordonSlocum

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    What God thinks today he has always thought.

    Here is the problem with the statement. We are human and we have made a statement "What God thinks today he has always thought." That kind of statement is a perception of God.

    How should I perceive God?

    God tells us from the beginning, God talking to God (Father, Son, HS) Let us create man in our own image.

    (1) That statement to us was at a point in time.

    (2) So if that statement were made today I can say that God knew He would make that statement. The statement I don't think is for God's benefit - but ours.

    (3) Our capacities are limited and confined to time and space. What we know, see and hear form God is within this realm and that is how we solve the issues of God and man is from this realm.

    (4) I do not understand "eternal now" so I explain what I have in sequence as it makes sense to me where by it does not violate the Holiness of God.

    (5) Agreeing with a statement of understanding if the understanding is correct to me is trying to figure out the "eternal now" I don't know how to do that. I have tried but I am limited in capacity and all I have tried seems lacking. I see everything in time and space. The image of God that I am is limited to the realm God place me in and in that realm I live.

    What God thinks today he has always thought

    Here is another angle for me.

    God only thinks Holiness and all actions are holy and God will not violate His Holiness.

    So whatever He thinks today (our perspective) is set in an eternal now for God and is always "from my side of things" sequential.

    I would word it this way

    What God thinks today, He knew He would yesterday.

    You question introduces "time" and to define God in a "time frame" and at the same time confess we can't because He exist in an Eternal now can't happen. At least I don’t think it can. We are forced to define everything form our side of existence not God's .

    That is why we say 1,2,3,4

    And not

    Not Now, Now, Now, etc.

    Even that is some what funny and amusing because Now too is a time concept. You have to be laughing at this point. The illustration in and of itself tells the story does it not?

    If we can say we understand the "eternal now" which is neither past or future then for God to speak to us in sequence has no relevance for discussion. So we are forced to see things in sequence regardless of weather we have the any grasp of God's Eternal now-ness.

    I personally don't know how to explain "eternal now" absent of time unless I am permitted to use time to explain "eternal now".

    So for me if one side says I must understand "time and space" from an assumed understanding of the "eternal now" where by I try to define "time and space" I then have no where to go because I can't explain the "'eternal now" unless I do it according to my realm by time and space - sequence, order, etc. And those words do not suggest the “eternal now” does not have sequence, order etc. I am inclined to firmly believe the eternal now is sequential, orderly, and determined. (Oh No! there is that word - help - LOL)

    God created me and my realm (God's creation) and you are in that realm too. We both admit we can't explain God and this concept we think we understand called "eternal now" has to from our vantage point be explain in terms of sequence, time and space. This is our existence and limit.

    I could rattle on forever about explaing God and never have a clue to knowing what I can't really grasp. So where am I force to remain and work within? My realm that is God's creation.

    Do you think God is having a big chuckle over all this? I do

    He sees our heart and regardless of our trying to figure Himout He see us as a group of children on the play ground and as we have watched our kids play house and act out other plays of live God to is watching us and lovingly laughing as he nurtures us along. That is comforting to think that way.

    Gordon.
     
    #10 GordonSlocum, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2006
  11. GordonSlocum

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    Sorry that you have such a difficulty understanding. I am not in a battle with you. It seems that you are with me. Perhaps if you approach me differently we might be able to at least discuss our differences.
     
  12. reformedbeliever

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    Gordon. I can't really say whether or not I agree with these statements, as I've not given enough consideration of them yet. I just wanted to tell you that you did a great job with your spelling and sentence structure and all. This is just not like you. I'm sure that from this point on, you will use this excellence in the rest of your postings. Great job! You kinda messed up on only one or two sentences, with spelling etc.
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    jeeessh........
     
  14. J.D.

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    I get confused when people start talking about time and omnitemporality and stuff like that. But I think you're saying that how can there be an order, as in chronological sequence, to God's decrees since decrees represents the thoughts of God, which are eternal. Perhaps we can understand it better by knowing that the decrees are things which God determined to do, and the actions of God's decrees concerning man involve time and sequence.

    Most scholars place the emphasis on logical sequence of the decrees vs the chronological sequence anyway.
     
  15. GordonSlocum

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    Thanks, I have had this problem all my life. I am constantly editing my statements. For reasons, that I won't get into, I did not get a good start in foundational skills. I have to work very hard at it.

    I have a brother in law that according to my understanding has what is called a photographic memory. He simply does not forget anything. (Actually I have two like that) He was a 4.0 student all his life. He has to boys, one dyslexic and the other is just an average person who does not have his dad’s capacity. Thanks to his wife the balance in understanding was present in their home. The dyslexic son is smart but it takes “forever” to get it out. Dad on the other hand can give you an answer is a split second. I am sure you understand what I am saying. Dan, the older son, an average person.

    Dad has a rare disease called sarcoidosis an autoimmune diseases.

    This disease and his two boys were a major source of irritation for him. As you can imagine his mind set was, it is easy for me, so what is your problem. It also demonstrated itself with impatience and intolerance. The sarcoidosis brought him to his senses. His disease forced him to consider that his kids are smart but not instant, if that makes sense. Both could arrive at the same place but differently and at a slower speed. The questions were, “Do they want to? and Do they have to?” Capacity has some relevance to the answer of these questions. Motivation is an other factor and most likely is linked to capacity. Both boys did not have this “instance capacity” to remember on the spot what they read, heard, etc.

    Perhaps I am just rambling on. But maybe it makes some sense.

    My professors constantly encouraged me. My biggest number one issue in school was spelling and grammar. I spent endless hours at the type writer. Thank the Lord for Computers. My papers were filled with white out and re-typed over clumps of this substance. I could not tell you how many times I took the “onion skin” paper out of the type writer, wad it up and cast it into the trash can. It was work. It was slow. When everyone else was doing their thing I was still working on my papers.

    Thanks for the encouragement.
     
  16. Jarthur001

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    gordon,

    There are a few things I would like to address, but my "time" is limited today. I'll be short.

    What you have placed on the table is called the "now theory". I do not have time to go into it now, but there are scores of reasons why this does not work. I'll just give you the logic side right now. The best way to see God in time is one word..."forever".

    A short list of words to look at about God and time.

    omnitemporality..this means God is in each time frame. This is about the same as NOW..but it means more then just Now. But this is not all there is to understand about God and time.

    atemporal....God is outside of time. Independent of time; timeless.

    temporal..meaning God is in time and uses time.

    time..what is it? It is a measurement of change.

    One way of looking at it, is "time" is the number of times the earth spins. With this picture I think you can see time in the best light. God is outside looking at the earth spinning, but He also knows how many spins there have been. Time is linked to creation. If God reaches down and touches a rock, God has touched time. Therefore it is easy to see that God is both outside of time, and in time. He is in time when He works with man.

    A measurement of change. if God saves man..this is a change. If God makes it rain...this is a change. If God gives life to the baby in the womb, this is change. This is God working in time.

    So back to our words... If God is omnitemporality this means he is also temporal. But it is clear He is more then temporal, for He is not bound to time, He is also atemporal.

    One thing for sure...God is not "sola atemporal."


    In Christ...James
     
    #16 Jarthur001, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2006
  17. GordonSlocum

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    That is interesting. "God can not decide - He wills"

    Question: How can you will something that is nothing?

    We both can agree, I think, that God is intelligence "complete intelligence". Second, I think we can agree we are created in God's image. Now, if that is true and I certainly believe it is. I, being created in God's image, can think and will and feel.

    How then does God not think if I am created in His image and I can think?

    We would both agree that God is Omniscience, all knowing. That certainly implies thinking, purpose, design etc. What good is will without something to will. To me will has to have an object, design, purpose to validate its “ability”.

    If I were God, I am not, and I wanted to created - How them might I create just from my will. I need power and intelligence too. Should I not be able to have knowledge and think so that what I will - will actually consist of something?

    Example: I will for the river to overflow its banks. (1) I must have intelligence but (2) I must have power too. (3) Both one and two can not come to pass until God wills it but thinking and power must be there. (God design, God has the power to cause it and once He so wills it - it then is. ) The neat part is that God's intelligence is of such a nature that He knew it before he knew it. ( I can not explain that)

    If as God I don't have intelligence and all I have is will and feelings but I don't have capacity or ability to "Know" how them will my will know what to will? It just does not make logical sense. By the way the will to know can’t know because to know means the individual has intelligence. Will by itself can not do anything because it needs direction, purpose, design, understanding, etc.

    To even discuss anything about God concerning man and see God as not having intelligence somehow stops before it starts.
     
  18. reformedbeliever

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    You are welcome! I have a lot of problems with grammar and spelling. I have to work at it too, and mess up a bunch. :BangHead: Oh well.... maybe everyone will work hard at trying to understand what we are saying. Grace and peace.:thumbsup:
     
  19. russell55

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    The problem, as I see it, with this paragraph is with this statement: God design, God has the power to cause it and once He so wills it - it then is.

    What God wills is his design. The two things are synonymous for God. God designs (or plans, or wills) atemporally and then he brings about in time whatever is in that design. There is no need for a separate willing within time, because God is immutable. God's purposes stand, which means that God's plan for creation is a steadfast and unchanging thing.

    A corollary of that would be that at the time God brings something to be, there is no separate willing to bring it to be. He still, of course, wills to bring it to be, but it's the same will that was willed atemporially in God's design for creation.

    That God is immutable also means that any information flow has to be from God's mind outward to his creation rather than the other way around. That means that what God designs or wills cannot be determined by what he foresees (or knows atemporally) will happen in his creation; but rather, his design or will must determine what he foresees (or knows atemporally) will happen in creation.
     
  20. npetreley

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    This is what I was trying to say in another post. God is the ultimate cause of everything. There are secondary causes, such as what we will, but everything that happens must be traced back to its ultimate cause, which is God and His purpose. Just because we don't necessarily know how a sinful will can glorify God doesn't mean it's not true. The creation, as warped as we may perceive it from our own perspective, all glorifies God. "God has made all things for Himself, yes even the wicked for the day of destruction."
     

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