Acts 13:48

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by evidence, Jan 30, 2005.

  1. evidence

    evidence
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    I would like for an Arminian to explain to me Acts 13:48 that says: "Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. (NKJV)"
     
  2. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
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    I am not Arminian, merely Christian. But if you take your quoted scripture and put it in context, you will see that verse 48 is not a stand alone edict. but rather gives impetus to our Savior's words in John 3:16 and John 5:24
    God the Son said, that the Destiny for those who hear and believe, is ETERNAL LIFE! If you would rightly divide the word of Truth YOU would know that!
     
  3. johnp.

    johnp.
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    Hello evidence, nice to meet you. :cool:

    johnp.
     
  4. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Evidence;
    I thought that it was self explanatory. It's obvious to me if the Gentiles were gald then they were all saved.

    It's true that not all will be saved, but that's because of the requirement of trust it is we who first trust in Christ.
    Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    Some say this is work for Salvation. I ask how can that be when we acquire faith by hearing God's word. Which faith it self is a work of God.

    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    It is the work of God to believe on Him through His word being preached to you. Faith is not a work of man. This faith is the reason we trust Christ. Trust is not a work of man either but is a result of the work of God called Faith. Even still it is up to man to accept that faith and exercise trust. No Faith No Grace because Grace comes through faith Eph 2:8

    How about your own explanation of the same?
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  5. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    First notice in Acts 13:46 it was the Israelites/Jews who rejected the Messiah/Jesus. [John 1:11] In verse 46 it was His own people, the Jews, who ‘put Him off,’ and by their own rejection of Christ made themselves outside the pale of His grace, or as the Bible says, ‘unworthy of everlasting life.’ Notice is was not the Lord Who catapulted them into the regions of the damned, as Calvinists have been wrongfully taught. They made ‘ . . . themselves unworthy of everlasting life.’ God respects the free will of the individual in this matter of eternal salvation.

    Now to verse 48. Dean Alford translated it: ‘as many as were disposed to eternal life believed.’ Dr. Henry Alford “The New Testament for English Readers” Baker’s Book House, 1983, I: 745.

    Dr. A.T. Robertson, the Baptist Greek scholar, says, the same thing in almost the same words: “ordain is not the best translation . . . . There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an ‘absolutum dicretum.’ Dr. A.T. Robertson, “Word Pictures in the New Testament” Harper and Bros, 1930, III: 200.

    No one should ‘cherry pick’ a verse like 48 and try to prove a decreed election. Contextually, you must look at a group of verses and then study them thoroughly.

    God’s hope was that when He presented the Gospel to the Jews, that they through the Jewish apostolate, would be lights of His grace in leading the Gentiles into the covenant of grace.

    Obviously, the Lord has always known who will receive eternal life with thanksgiving in their hearts, and who will spurn His most wonderful grace and everlasting hope. He knew before hand, who would become His elect, though He did not autocratically ordain some to life and others to eternal death.

    This is neither Calvinistic or Arminian, but a Biblical view of verse 48. Some people will obey the call of the Spirit of God and unfortunately, the remaining ones will reject the conviction and convincing, mighty influence and ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    Berrian, Th.D.
     
  6. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    More proof and explanation . . .

    In Dr. Norman Geisler’s book, “Chosen But Free” Bethany House Publishers, p. 41 says,

    ‘Some moderate Calvinists, like J.O. Buswell, deny this is a reference to predestination. He wrote, “Actually the words of Acts 13:48-49 do not necessarily have any reference whatever to the doctrine of God’s eternal decree of election. The passive participle (tetagmenoi} may simply mean ‘ready,’ and we might well read, ‘as many as were prepared for eternal life, believed.’” He adds, “Commenting on this word, Alford says, ‘The meaning of this word must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life (vs. 46); the Gentiles “as many as were disposed to eternal life,” believed . . . . To find in this text preordination to life asserted, is to force both the word and the context to a meaning which they do not contain.’” 2

    Dr. James Oliver Buswell, Jr., “A Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion, Vol. II, Zondervan Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1962-63, p. 152-153.

    Put this in your proverbial pipe and smoke it for a few relaxing moments. [​IMG]

    Dr. Berrian
     
  7. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Hey Ray, you're thinking like a Sadducee, they emphasized the freedom of the human will over the doctrine of election.

    It is difficult to miss the doctrine of God's election in Acts 13; the words "were appointed" come from the verb tasso, a military word meaning "to arrange" or "to assign." Luke used it here to show that God's elective decree included Gentiles. Every one must be appointed for eternal life before they can believe.
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Prophecynut,

    I know brother, the old 'Hoowdy Duddy Buffalo Bob' theology.

    I gave you two Greek scholars, and one even a Baptist, who disagree with your personal theology. What more can I do? And notice even the third man is a moderate Calvinist and he disagrees with you.

    You don't like the Greek scholars Greek study, so move on to the context of the passage. Where did you teach or study the Greek language?

    My types will pray for your illumination. [​IMG]
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Ray, you are a slow learner. You again quote AT Robertson as if he agrees with you. He does not. Here is what Robertson said

    That is from the page you cite. But you apparently did not read it carefully. You likely got this information from Hunt's travesty of a book. You should have learned by now that Hunt's book was a fraud. It was unethical. By selective citations, he made Robertson appear as if he agreed with himself. Robertson disagreed with Hunt.

    Ray, you can't keep trying this bad line of argumentation. The passage of Acts 13:48 is very clear and only by strange contortions can you get around it. It would be better to leave the comfort of your own thoughts and subscribe to the theology revealed by God in his word.
     
  10. prophecynut

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    I don't think Ray is a slow learner, after all he belongs to the alphabet gang, he's just a hard nut to crack. I never taught or studied Greek, I got smart from those who have. As to prophecy scholars, I'm Clint Eastwood to them, they fit the categories of the deaf, blind and the proud.
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Do not be so paranoid about Mr. Hunt’s book. My quote was not from Hunt’s book but rather from Norman Geisler’s book, “Chosen But Free,” on page 41. [​IMG]
     
  12. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Dear Pastor,

    I also have the complete set of Word Pictures in the New Testament, by Dr. Robertson. Your quote was correct in what you said, but you selectively chose his sentences that agree with you. Why did you not write in this part of his quote also?

    ‘Certainly the Spirit of God does move upon the human heart to which some respond, as here, while others push Him away.’ Dr. Robertson is hardly peddling your twisted view of Effectual Calling. To push away the Holy Spirit is Resistible Grace as the Word of God certifies as in the observation of Luke in Acts 7:51. The call from the Holy Spirit for salvation went out to all of the Israelites who heard the Gospel preached.

    In Isaiah 63:10 there were some who were not Effectually Called as you believe, who resisted, rebelled, and angered the Holy Spirit. This is resisting the grace of the Lord and in Arminian Theology we say it is Resistible Grace.

    A rhetorical question is asked in Malachi 1:9. ‘Will He regard your persons? Saith the Lord of hosts.’ Salvation is for all sinners, if they only believe. [John 3:16; I John 2:2]

    Resistible Grace is understood in Jeremiah 19:15d. Resisting the Holy Spirit only leads to the hardening of the sinner’s heart. I am sure that you have seen and experienced in your ministry this sad event in the lives of sinners. Not all responded to your preaching and neither did all turn to the Christ of God in my pleading toward the lost.
     
  13. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Pastor Larry,

    Another sentence which your refused to elevate for our attention is found in Dr. Robertson's "Word Pictures in the New Testament is found in your quoted volume III, p. 200 where the Greek scholar said,

    'There is no evidence that Luke had in mind an 'absolutum decretum of personal salvation.'

    This sentence is about the eighth sentence from the bottom of page 200. He is saying there is no such a thing as absolute decreeing of eternal salvation.

    Check for yourself. :D

    Ray
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I didn't refuse to elevate that for anyone's attention. You already said that. What I did was point out that what you said about Robertson did not rightly reflect Robertson's position.
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Prophecynut;
    Where does God's word say that only a few are appointed. God's plan for all men is for righteousness not one, was ever created to be destroyed for God's good pleasure. God has plans for each and everyone of us. However Even God's own plans are not unalterable for if they were then His plans would be more powerful than Him.
    May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  16. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Ray;
    My Original Greek Dictionary defines Tasso like this;
    tassô to arrange, put in order This is the root meaning. What we have with the words Ordained or appointed is mans Idea not God's
    There nothing about it being an unalterable appointment.
    Any way you look at it Calvinist want you to see this as unalterable. But they forget there is nothing imposible with God. If this is so there is nothing unalterable.
    May Christ shine His Light On Us All;
    Mike [​IMG]
     
  17. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Mission Impossible
     
  18. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Pastor Larry,

    You said,
    If you look closely I did not use that sentence from Dr. Robertson before. You may inadvertently have missed this sentence but I did not pass over it.

    I said that he said,
     
  19. aa0310

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    The Calvinist would have you believe that Acts 13:48 proves the doctrine of eternal election. However, if we would honestly look at the whole passage, and not think that we can build a doctrine on a single word or sentence, then it is evident that no such thing is taught here. In fact, it is the opposite that is clearly taught here. Let us look at some points closely.

    1. Paul was here addressing the Jews with the Gospel of Salvation (verse 45)
    2. The same Jews were contradicting what Paul was saying, and blaspheming the Gospel. (verse 45)
    3. Paul then tells the Jews that it was necessary that they sould be the first to hear the Gospel, "But, seeing that ye put it (reject it - shows ability of the free will!)from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life (God did not judge them so! No election taught here!), lo, we turn to the gentiles" (verse 46)
    4. When the Gentiles heard the Gospel, and the fact that they too were able to be saved by the Grace of God, they were overjoyed! (Verse 48), and gave glory to God for His Great Savlation!
    5. "And believed as many as were appointed (by their believing) to life eternal" (verse 48 as in the Greek)
    6. The Greek participle, "tetagmenoi", translated "appointed", is a word that can either be in the passive or middle voice in the Greek. The certainty of which is determined by the passage in which it is used. Here, as we have already seen, the Jews "considered themselves" unworthy of eternal life,(which requires the middle voice), as opposed to this, the Gentiles readly accepted the Gospel, and were thus "enroling themselves" into this eternal life! Thus is the force of the Greek here, and has no objections, unless, of course it is theology driven!

    It is very clear that this passage does not any any form teach the Calvinstic doctrine of predestination, something that is foreign to the whole tenor of Scripture!
     
  20. johnp.

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    Hello aa0310.

    Do you think Calvinists build the doctrine of election on one verse?
    Whether it is taught here or not does not give you the right to spin. 'if we would honestly look' should begin at home.
    You grasp at straws if you think that rejecting to do God's will is a sign that your god free will exists. It shows only that sinners are able to say no thanks when left to themselves. That 'left to themselves' is called reprobation.
    I've not spoken to you before as far as I can remember. I see you are into Greek. Tell me what a Greek participle is please. Bear in mind I don't know what an English one is.
    EPH 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.
    RO 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    Surely not the whole tenor of scripture?

    johnp.
     

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