Acts 13:48

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Osage Bluestem, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
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    Acts 13:48 ESV
    48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

    What does this pasage teach us?

    What sticks out to me is the last part, "and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

    I believe this passage clearly shows that God elects people to salvation and those elect people believe as a result of that election.

    So it is not their belief that caused their election to eternal life but their election to eternal life that caused their belief.
     
  2. webdog

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    I believe the correct usage of the greek word here translated "appointed" should read "arrange", another understanding of tasso. This shows the fulfillment of OT prophecy (Isaiah 60:3, Hosea 2:23, etc.) concerning the gentiles.

    Consider the same word in this text Romans 13:1, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are appointed of God.

    This consists of every evil ruler throughout history (Nero, Stalin, Hitler, Hussein, et al). Clearly God did not choose these evil rulers to commit the heinous acts of sin they committed, but God did allow them all to be in power, and through His sovereignty arranged the events of history for His purposes. I believe the same principal of "tasso" used here is to be understood in the OP text.
     
  3. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem
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    The scholars who translated the following respected translations disagree with you.


    Acts 13:48 ESV
    48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


    Acts 13:48 NASB
    48When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    Acts 13:48 NIV
    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.


    Acts 13:48 HCSB
    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the message of the Lord, and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    Acts 13:48 NKJV
    48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    Acts 13:48 KJV
    48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    Acts 13:48 NLT
    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers.


    Are you qualified to overrule their descisions to use the words they used in the text?

    None of these teams of scholars work together, however they have all reached a common consenses regarding this word.
     
    #3 Osage Bluestem, Feb 28, 2011
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  4. webdog

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    Did you want opposing views...or only those who agree with you? You should state that in your OP.

    FWIW appointed can be understood as arranged, that was the point I was making. It has been appointed unto man once to die. Your understanding of this is God appointed, ordained, chose, etc. an abortion or murder to occur.
     
  5. Osage Bluestem

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    Why then did all of the translators of the most respected English translations choose either appointed, ordained, or chosen to be placed in the text?
     
    #5 Osage Bluestem, Feb 28, 2011
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  6. webdog

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    Why not ask them that one day? You are not understanding what I am saying, either by mistake or deliberately.

    Since you are insisting on the english understanding of the word and not the greek, here you go...

    ap·point ([​IMG]-point[​IMG])tr.v. ap·point·ed, ap·point·ing, ap·points 1. To select or designate to fill an office or a position (Isaiah 60:3, Hosea 2:23)

    2. To fix or set by authority or by mutual agreement

    3. To furnish; equip

    4. Law To direct the disposition of (property) to a person or persons in exercise of a power granted for this purpose by a preceding deed.

    As you can see my understanding falls well within the parameters of what I believe the author was intending, and that is a fulfillment of OT prophecy concerning the gentiles.
     
    #6 webdog, Feb 28, 2011
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  7. webdog

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    You also did not explain why these same authors used this same word in Romans 13:1 and how they did not mean this in the same way you are using it in Acts 13
     
  8. DHK

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    Because according to the context, that is the definition that makes the most sense. That should not rule out discussion on the word in other contexts, or on the meaning of the word completely. It should not be a shut and close case as you want it to be, otherwise why did you post it? Did you post it for debate or not? We can all make statements. Is this up for debate or not?

    Here is a rebuttal that Webdog made.
    Using the same word, did God ordain abortion, murder, and all types of evil to come to pass. Does not that then make God the author of evil?
     
  9. Osage Bluestem

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    Ok. I was asking what people thought the passage taught not if the wording of it was translated correctly. That is obvious unless no new testament scholar knows greek. It is pointless to try to change the wording of scripture. The word is clear. There need be no discussion of changing the word.

    So what does the passage teach given the words in it?

    In answer to the rebuttal:

    God works all things according to the council of his will:

    Ephesians 1:11 ESV
    11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

    There is not one thing that has ever happened or will ever happen that God did not decree will happen for his good purposes.

    He is sovereign.

    This is illustrated nicely in Genesis:

    Genesis 50:18-20
    18His brothers also came and fell down before him and said, "Behold, we are your servants." 19But Joseph said to them, "Do not fear, for am I in the place of God? 20As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.

    God's plan for everthing is good for his glory and for the benefit of those who love him.

    Romans 8:28-30 ESV
    28And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good for those who are called according to his purpose. 29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

    The purpose of reprobation is clearly described here:

    Romans 9:22-23
    22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

    The only evil in the universe is in the hearts of those who do the doing with the evil intent. God's intent is good for his chosen people and his judgement of the heart is just for the reprobates (like the devil and his children) who are evil.
     
  10. Ron Wood

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    The primary meaning of the word "tasso" is "appoint" or as the KJV puts it "ordain". That is why it is used in the English translations in this verse. It does no harm to the verse or what it teaching to use the word arrange because it still says that they believe because God first acted. But for you to use the word arrange in order to take the meaning away is stretching it quite a bit.

    As to the Rom. 13 passage it is exactly as it says, the powers that be are ordained of God. He raises up kings and puts them down. He sets up governments and destroys them. That is the teaching of the Scriptures.

    To answer your cavil about murder and abortions I would say exactly the same thing. All things are of God. Rom. 11:36, 1Cor. 8:6, Rev. 4:11
     
  11. Osage Bluestem

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    I am insisting that the evidence that the scholars translated this passage correctly is overwhelming. I do not understand why anyone would petition to have the word changed unless they simply had an adgenda that the word did not support.
     
  12. webdog

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    I believe the context matters. What is it?

    44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45 When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
    “‘I have made you[f] a light for the Gentiles,
    that you[g] may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.
     
  13. webdog

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    How did I take away the meaning? I concur with what you said above, God in His sovereignty arranged things precisely so that prophecy would be fulfilled in His plan for the gentiles. Context dictates this understanding, not a soteiology.
     
  14. Andy T.

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    It should be noted that some would agree with both Webdog and Osage on this verse - Webdog with the fulfillment of prophecy aspect, and Osage with the election aspect. John MacArthur as a dispensationalist (and Calvinist) is an example.
     
    #14 Andy T., Feb 28, 2011
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  15. Osage Bluestem

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    The Jews have rejected Christ.
     
  16. Ron Wood

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    The context dictates that the primary meaning of the word be used. I agree that we ought not interpret according to soteriology but isn't that exactly what you have done with this text? If not then why must you insist that we translate the word arrange rather than the primary meaning?
     
  17. Osage Bluestem

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    We see from the passage in question:

    Acts 13:48 ESV
    48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

    That "as many" of the group in question in the context meaning no more no less than the total, those who were appointed to eternal life, believed.
     
  18. J.D.

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    Yes, but it is the soteriological aspect that is the eye-opener in this passage.
     
  19. webdog

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    You are STILL failing to grasp what I am saying. I'm NOT petitioning to have the word removed...I'm petitioning to have YOUR understanding of the word removed.

    Why won't you answer the question regarding how the "word" is used in Romans 13?
     
  20. webdog

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    Depends on your view :) I think it's quite clear by the context the prophecy of the Gospel coming to the gentiles is in site.
     
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