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Actual Non Cal Doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by mandym, Jan 16, 2012.

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  1. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Did you read my link?
     
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Um, no. He's on target. You? Not so much.

    Try practicing your signature for a change; "What you say to and about others says a whole lot about you." OK? It's a great line, but looks better when you actually practice what you preach.

    And take a gander here:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1788273#post1788273

    Leave off with your rushing into threads slinging the insults "childish," "immature," "hypocritical" and "snide" and open your eyes and see that what was said, that is, that LILAC is believed and is actually taught. By non-Calvinists. Thanks.
     
    #62 preacher4truth, Jan 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Wow, someone keeps trying to pull that speck out of the eye of everyone else with that telephone pole hanging from their eyelid.
     
  4. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    An excellent example of your profundity. I am thinking reading this post, "pot and kettle" and "beam in eye". You might be surprised how nice some might be to YOU should you try returning the favor.
     
  5. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    What is so hard for those bethren who refuse the DoG as regards to salvation just admitting that they do hold to some degree that we assist God in getting ourselves saved?

    RCC co assist God by practicing the sacraments, while they would exercise 'free will!"
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God's grace can be resisted....right unto hell itself...acts 7:51
    Men are born in a natural condition and resist God's grace.
    That obviously is not what the I stands for.

    Irresistable grace is God drawing His elect.in a special and particular way that is always effectual.....100% of the time.

    Many people where there ,He bypassed them to get to Zacchaeus house...
    we are told why.....

    notice....Jesus did not beat the multitude away.....they did what they wanted to do. He had special care and grace given to Zacchaeus.


    Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling
    1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.
    ( Romans 8:30; Romans 11:7; Ephesians 1:10, 11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 14; Ephesians 2:1-6; Acts 26:18; Ephesians 1:17, 18; Ezekiel 36:26; Deuteronomy 30:6; Ezekiel 36:27; Ephesians 1:19; Psalm 110:3; Song of Solomon 1:4 )
    2._____ This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, nor from any power or agency in the creature, being wholly passive therein, being dead in sins and trespasses, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit; he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it, and that by no less power than that which raised up Christ from the dead.
    ( 2 Timothy 1:9; Ephesians 2:8; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:5; John 5:25; Ephesians 1:19, 20 )

    3._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
    ( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

    4._____ Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit, yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved: much less can men that receive not the Christian religion be saved; be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
    ( Matthew 22:14; Matthew 13:20, 21; Hebrews 6:4, 5; John 6:44, 45, 65; 1 John 2:24, 25; Acts 4:12; John 4:22; John 17:3 )
     
    #66 Iconoclast, Jan 17, 2012
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  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not a Calvinist and I don't believe in total depravity
    Men are not elected apart from Christ we are elected in Christ that is what scripture says.
    There you go again. Calvinist claim they believe in limited atonement which when you get down to the truth even they do not believe in this. They preach Jesus Christ saves just like us. They just don't tell anyone they have to be chosen first until after the fact.
    Hey! what do you know you got this right.
    True He is the author and finisher of our faith.
    Regeneration and being born again are the same thing and they together is being delivered from the effects of our sins The word regeneration means to be remade. Grace is what saves though you can't have grace with out faith as in;
    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    You see faith needs to be in place inorder for grace to come through it.
    Those like myself do not have a said flower to describe our beliefs, we use the Bible for that.
    MB
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Stop regurgitating the same garbage! Your premise is nothing but a strawman that keeps getting refuted...learn! When you accept a gift do you hold to some degree that you assisted the giver in you giving yourself the gift? If not, STOP WITH THE FALLACY for cryin out loud!
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Can you please share some scripture that says some are drawn in a "special and particular" way?
     
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Some truths about our salvation and the process aren't known prior to salvation, but after. I don't think you're aware of this and you have a problem with DoG brothers who teach those converted truth after salvation.

    We learn some facts of soteriology after salvation. Another thing, we are told to preach the Gospel to the lost, which is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Studious and honest believers come to the proper conclusion they were elect or chosen, by God, not vice versa.

    Paul, saved on the Damascus road was, according to God, already chosen not only for salvation but for ministry even from his mothers womb. Galatians 1:15.

    I highly doubt he grasped this instantaneously at conversion. Thus your argument is rather specious, deficient, and subsequently fallacious.

    I smell some serious LILACS in here. :flower: :flower: :thumbsup:

    Hmmmmm. :wavey:
     
    #70 preacher4truth, Jan 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2012
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Hmmmmmm,

    Specious, deficient and subsequently fallacious.


    :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead:
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This effectual working of the word...is the work of the Spirit.

    AmyG...this calling ...and the faith of God's Elect.....were promised before the world began.


    Those given shall come....It is certain because it is the work of the Spirit!

    It is 100 % certain.


    All given...shall come.....

    no man can.......unless drawn by God.



    1] sanctified by the Father

    2] preserved in Jesus Christ


    3] called

    set apart before the world was...given to Jesus
    Jesus keeps them, losing none
    they are called to this by the Spirit.

    The whole work is God's...we are begotten, elect, foreknown,sanctified,kept by Him. It is a complete work...not a partial work.

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
     
  13. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Ok. I don't seem to have a rebuttal. :laugh:
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    AmyG

    We should all rejoice in the truth and just enjoy the mercy and love of God.
    He did not leave us dead in sins.He makes this love known to us, and calls us to the obedience of faith.
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    We are the ones who must humble ourselves when He calls. We must drop our pride, and come to Him in all humility, seeking His favour, His Grace, and His mercy. W/O humbleness, we will not be saved.
     
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    This pretty much sums things up with me, too. I am in agreement with this "camp"........
     
  17. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Same song, different verse, I see........
     
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Look behind you, and you'll find that you do, in fact, have a rebuttal........:laugh:
     
  19. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    On a seroius note for a change, I agree with you on what Brother Iconoclast wrote.
     
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Those of other theological strains would say that is not for the church, that is for the Jews and blah blah blah blah.

    I think some peoples theology is just on a slant to attempt to ruin in the minds of Gods people His promises in the Word to them.

    They're Sadducee! :tear:

    :wavey:
     
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